SNES Vertical Line Discussion

[vlame]

It could just the fact certain games are attempting to produce a graphical effect and it is just not happening correctly.

So far I've only heard Ppl mention a handful of games producing this anomaly. I am going to borrow some games this week. Please give me precise areas and scenes so I can look with my super famicom. I did forget to mention that I use a Honeybee adapter to play snes games on my sfc. Although my bomberman 4, Mario kart and SMw2 carts are Japanese.

[vlame]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48667404@N02/

no sign of it on my super famicom...

[Hobie-wan]

Ok, I finally forced myself to stop and have a go. I ended up eliminating tests as I went since it was obvious that certain things weren't contributing to any issues. I didn't bother with my Monster Svideo cable since the cheap one didn't show the issue. I used the following:

Samsung SP S4243 ED plasma TV - RF/composite/Svideo
Commodore 1702 CRT - composite
SNES - with cart lock and socketed sound - early model
SNES - without cart lock and all in one board - later model
SNES - mini - later still
Nintendo SNES power brick - smooth SNES label only
Nintendo SNES power brick - smooth SNES and Virtual Boy label
Nintendo SNES power brick - rough SNES and Virtual Boy label
Cheap 'yellow box' power brick for SNES/NES/Genesis model 1
Cheap svideo cable with spindly end wires
Nintendo composite cable
Nintendo RF auto switch

The power bricks made no difference at all in combination with the 3 different model SNES units. Having them plugged into the same power strips as the plasma/CRT, or across the room didn't make any difference in the picture.

I was unable to recreate the issue on the CRT. Adjusting color, brightness, contrast, and screen position made no difference in the picture. It looked the same for all 3 SNES units.

I had remembered a textured green stripe down the screen on the plasma in the past during mostly black screens, and this is likely a slightly different manifestation of the line that others are seeing. However it only happened using composite and only with the lockless and mini SNES on the plasma. The lockless SNES created a stronger and more defined stripe than the mini did. The older SNES did not have the issue with composite. All of the following pictures are of the plasma screen with my camera on automatic settings.

Here is the stripe on the LTTP screen as the triforce pieces fall into place.


Super Metroid.


I had noticed in the past that the green stripe is affected by other graphics on the screen. Notice it does not continue up and down the screen here.


I did also notice it a bit in game, but only when outside with the gray sky in the background. I have adjusted the contrast and saturation of this image, but you can see the yellow smear down the screen.


I tested Soul Blazer as the next game and stuck to it for the rest of the tests. Composite showing the same green stripe.


RF did not have the stripe, nor does this svideo example.


The green stripe is affected by the other graphics on the screen. Other parts of the image are sort of shadowed slightly down and a large amount to the left. This is very noticeable with Soul Blazer because both the title and the sword slide in from the right hand side of the screen so you can see them 'shadow' the stripe before they cross it. On this copy of the composite picture I have increased the brightness and contrast. The chunk taken out of the green that is above the E corresponds to the graphics of the hilt of the sword.


So again this happens on my plasma, but not CRT. It only happens with composite, not RF or svideo. My later lockless and mini SNES do it, but my earlier locking one does not. Different power bricks were no different. The ghost and shadow effect combined with it being consistent between models leads me to believe this is an interference issue, possibly in the overscan area that a standard definition CRT is simply ignoring, but more modern TVs are misinterpreting. It reminds me of ghosting back in the bad old days of TV aerials during storms.

One other thing. My plasma has a 'game' setting. Turning this off lessened the effect of the stripe somewhat for composite, but had no effect on RF or s-video.

[Zing]

I was watching some of SNESGuide's youtube videos yesterday, and I noticed that all of his older captures clearly had the line down the middle.

I am headed to a swap meet in a week. I plan to pick up one or more SNES systems while I'm there.

[Ziggy]

Hobie's results prove one thing, which I have said many times before... We are all clearly getting different results here. Aside from it being a vertical bar, we have all described much different experiences with. Some can't seem to find it at all, some can only see it when they play with TV settings, some can see it vividly all the time, et certera, et certera. And now Hobie, who can see it on one TV but not another, and only with composite cables (cannot see it with RF or S-Video cables).


Thanks for taking the time to play around with it and post the results, Hobie!


Jamisonia is gonna send me one of his consoles when he gets the chance, I'm really interested in those results.

[Redifer]

Thanks for your post and especially the pictures Homie err I mean Hobie! What kind of blows me away is the way the stripe is affected by the other graphics on the screen. It's as if tiles have been blacked out, the stripe ends on perfectly straight edges. The Soul Blazer sword shot is an excellent example. If some tiles are being affected and others not depending on what is going on around it, this suggests that it is haooening during the actual construction of the graphics. It's almost as if certain tiles have one priority and others have a different one. Perhaps the sword is its own BG layer and its "transparent" tiles are masking the problem behind it. But then I wonder why a collection of tiles going down the center of the screen with this odd behavior would exist in the first place. The SNES does have multiple backgrounds and while two of them are full featured, the other two are very, very simple in what they can do. Maybe this is what we are seeing? Just a guess. Very, very odd. And fascinating.

[Zing]

I can see a similar effect in Final Fantasy III. If I turn the brightness up high, I see rows of lines and tiles used for the clouds and such during the scrolling intro. However, during the entire intro, there is a large area in the middle where there are no lines or tiles visible. At first, this "blank" area confused me. Then I realized that the area was the exact size of the "Final Fantasy III" title that eventually appears. I assume it is just another graphics layer on top of the scrolling clouds, initially blank or hidden, then activated/filled later.

[tenten one]

...So again this happens on my plasma, but not CRT. It only happens with composite, not RF or svideo. My later lockless and mini SNES do it, but my earlier locking one does not. Different power bricks were no different...

One other thing. My plasma has a 'game' setting. Turning this off lessened the effect of the stripe somewhat for composite, but had no effect on RF or s-video.

just picked up a second hand snes from a local guy. i have the exact same bars as Hobie-won. when i tested it at the seller's place, he used the rf to an old tv and it looked fine. i went home and hooked it up via the composite cables to my samsung plasma and lo and behold, im here on this board via google searches!

at first i thought it was my brand of tv (samsung) because of this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=696736
but then i read all the diff brands tested here... so that theory is kinda dead end..

so on my unit, rf is good, composite is no good, s-video is next. hobie-won, your post gives me hope. but the only difference is, the one i have is an older unit with the lock out tabs... and your problem free unit seems to be the same kind, however, im not sure if that matters given the possibility that these old things get refurbished and part swapped over the years.

[Hobie-wan]

so on my unit, rf is good, composite is no good, s-video is next. hobie-won, your post gives me hope. but the only difference is, the one i have is an older unit with the lock out tabs... and your problem free unit seems to be the same kind, however, im not sure if that matters given the possibility that these old things get refurbished and part swapped over the years.

FWIW my older SNES is definitely original since I got it new back in the day. I'm pretty sure the other 2 hadn't had anything swapped in them before I got them either as they looked unmolested when I first got them and gave them a clean.

[Hobie-wan]

at first i thought it was my brand of tv (samsung) because of this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=696736
but then i read all the diff brands tested here... so that theory is kinda dead end..

Actually that thread lead me to another test. I fed a problem system through my amp to the TV where as my composite and svideo systems are either hooked directly or through switchboxes. Going through the amp the stripe was less noticable without any other visible degradation of the image. If I switched off the TVs game mode the stripe was almost completely gone.

So for people who are stuck, feeding the SNES through an amp or a VCR/DVD player with inputs might help a bit at least.