Saturn on HDTV??? 2D fighters and upscan lag????

Post by **eastside** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:36 am

This is related to my previous post but the console in question here is Saturn.

I would like to get a 46inch 1080p LCD flat panel that will play Saturn without poor upscanned image quality and without 2D fighting killing lag.

Is this even possible? :?:

Please share you closest experience to achieving respectable Saturn HD play.

Going by the metric here:

http://www.fubarduck.com/hdtv-lag-faq

Example 3 (TV: Sony LCD with 1080p native resolution)
Worst: SNES Game (240p) –> Sony LCD upscales to 1080p –> Lag.
Worst: PS2 Game (480i) –> Sony LCD upscales to 1080p –> Lag.
Best: X-Box 360 game (720p) –> Sony LCD upscales to 1080p –> Small lag.
Better: Any game on any system with Game Mode activated (any resolution) –> Fairly small lag.

Relative to Saturn resolutions:

352 x 240, 640 x 240, and 704 x 480 resolution.

It looks kind of like it is in the range of questionable possiblity.

Anyone happen to know what resolution SFZ3, Xmen vs, Marvel vs and the like ran on? Were most Sega first party games 240 or 480?

Looks like there will be upscan lag at 480 or 240 even more so since it is interlaced. Apparently deinterlacing produces the most lag. The question is, enough to ruin proper 2D fighting gameplay?

My options to this point would be: 1) get this type of tv and invest in some kind of dedicated upscan box. However fast that might be even a frame or so of lag might ruin the 2D fighter experience... 2)Get a 1080i or 720p tv for less of an upscan conversion task. 3)Get an EDTV (480p) - maybe the line doubling from 480i to 480p will be another lag producer??? 4)Wait 10years for better technology?????!!!!! :roll:

As you can see I'm kind of overwhelmed here. I would like to get a 1080p flat pannel that WILL LEAVE NO CONSOLE BEHIND!!!! I don't want to go the double set route where I have one tv for old gen and another for new.

Thanks.

Post by **lordofduct** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:37 pm

If you get a good HDTV then an upscan box is useless as those TV's have good ones built into them already.

As for LCD panels, you will get more lag using an LCD panel over other style HDTVs. I personally use a DLP screen at 1080p with a Marantz A/V receiver to upscale everything onto a HDMI cable. Lag is mostly negligeable, maybe a frame at most which unless your playing Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 on its fastes speeds you don't really notice it all that much.

I'll play some 2D fighters on my saturn today just to let you know if I notice anything.

Post by **eastside** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:51 pm

Thanks. That would be great.

I am making a distinction between a flat pannel LCD and a rear projection LCD. I would get a flat panel LCD with 1080p and a 'game mode' feature.

What exactly do Saturn games look like on your tv? Are you displaying them in 16:9 with a stretched image or 4:3 with borders? Do the pixels look bad at that size and resolution i.e. too big, or blurry? You mentioned the Sega CD blurring in the other thread.... Take NiGHTS for example, do the quasi-transparency effects look bad?

I'd be very interested to here your feedback on the 2D fighters so I appreciate your sharing. I am a hardcore fight fan so even if the feel of the timing was off it would bug the heck out of me.

Post by **aaron** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:28 pm

PC media center/emulation box. problem solved.

Post by **lordofduct** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:08 pm

This week I've been playing a lot of DragonForce and Lunar SSS. They both look damn good!

I played Nights a couple weeks ago along with Panzer dragoon Zwei and Saga. Zwei was the only one that looked a little meh... but I always thought it looked a little meh (even on smaller standard def tvs).

The Sega CD problem I spoke of in an earlier post though is more or less the fact I"m using composite cables. On my Saturn I use S-vid, big freakin' difference!

Post by **eastside** » Thu May 10, 2007 12:26 am

Cool.

So how are you displaying the Saturn games, 16:9 stretched or 4:3 zoomed?

Post by **lordofduct** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:47 pm

Post by **neohx_7** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:00 pm

Well, you'll have to test a TV before you buy to see how bad the delay is. Theres some newer TVs that have special features designed to reduce lag. 95% of LCD/Plasma based TVs even expensive ones don't do as good of a job as a CRT. Honestly, with 2D fighters I stick to MAME at 1080p and Dreamcast VGA 480p with my LCD. My saturn is collecting much dust.

Post by **eastside** » Wed May 16, 2007 10:33 am

Thanks.

I was having similar sentiments going back in forth between playing fighters on MAME and Saturn. So, what is the most convenient setup to get MAME to your LCD?

Post by **neohx_7** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:56 am

I have my computer hooked up via DVI to my LCD and I have two PS2 joystick adaptors with the Sega Saturn Capcom PS2 pads or a HRAP joysitck hooked up. Mame can scale to your native LCD resolution with some smoothing filters and a monitor overlay grill to give it that CRT feel. I am 8ft away from the LCD so I have a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to control the interface, but there are many great joystick controllable frontends.