Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Anything that is gaming related that doesn't fit well anywhere else

What do you think Racketboy.com should NOT allow in the marketplace?

Poll ended at Fri May 09, 2014 11:58 am

Reproductions of JP / PAL only games that require translation
4
7%
Reproductions of JP / PAL only games that do not require translation
14
23%
Reproductions of any game that is expensive (over $100)
22
36%
Homebrews
5
8%
Hacks of released games
5
8%
Reproductions of previously unreleased games
5
8%
100-in-1's, etc
6
10%
 
Total votes: 61

dsheinem
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by dsheinem »

mjmjr25 wrote:So you are ok with a racket member buying a known repro and selling it on ebay as a repro then that person we don't know selling it as original? I don't think we have members actively conning our members but I have zero doubt we are a part of the greater bootleg cycle.

Everyone knows a 100-in-1 is a bootleg / non-official product. It's when someone has Earthbound to look exactly like Earthbound, no discernable markers.
The way I see it, those Earthbound bootlegs are going to be made, bought, and sold online regardless of what we do here. As long as all the dealings here are up front and straightforward about what is being sold, I think we've done our part in addressing the "greater bootleg cycle". Let eBay worry about eBay.

It may be handy to link a "bootleg detection guide" or some such to the BST guidelines/suggestions as a point of information, but I really don't think we need a specific policy governing repros.
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by samsonlonghair »

I expect a repro to be clearly labelled as such. As long as no one is being deceived, I see no problem.
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JoeAwesome
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by JoeAwesome »

Another issue, at least personally, is that repros makes selling harder because now some people want me to open up carts to show original boards. Ain't nobody got time for that! The pain of trying to sell a legit MUSHA.

Seriously, though, no issue with repros being sold as long as people state that in advance. New shells can be made, resellers aren't likely to get hurt, and exposure is increased for the "hard" to obtain. Just don't ask me to open my originals :x

P.s. If there was a C&D letter for them, I'd have no issue with repros disappearing. And don't lump flash carts with repros. Apples and oranges.
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Ziggy
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by Ziggy »

SirGawain wrote:Im a fan of repros if the game was never released outside of Japan and someone translated it, or like others have said, if the original game is so rare that the price is outrageous. The only problem I would have with them is if someone was passing off a repro of something like Hagane as original. As long as it is stated up front that it is a repro, I could care less.
There's a problem with making a repro of an expensive game, it can always be passed off as authentic. Let's say there's a SNES game that goes for $200 typically. Some one makes a repro of it, with a label clearly marked as such, and sells it to me for $50. What's to stop me from just making a new label and then selling it off for $200? Nothing. There's nothing you can do to stop that, short of making custom boards in custom cases (like Retro Zone does).

I'm a fan of "repro" carts only when there's no donor cart used, the game wasn't released outside of Japan and/or Europe, and they're made in a nondestructive way. Sure, I could still buy a Secret of Mana 2 repro and throw it up on eBay as some super rare prototype of the English version that was never released. But really, all it takes is Google and 5 seconds to find out that it's not legit. In that case, I don't feel sorry for the buyer because they didn't do any research before buying something.

The only way I'm cool with repros these days is if a fan-translation is applied to the cart of the actual game. For example, taking a Seiken Densetsu 3 SFC cart and putting the Secret of Mana 2 English translation on it. Or taking a Final Fantasy V SFC cart and putting the FF5 English translation on it. In this case, they're not "repros". They're legit carts that were modified so that the game is in a different language than it original was. And in this case, I wouldn't be concerned about any copyright holder backlash.

The game has to remain in it's original SFC cart shell. Putting it inside an NTSC-U SNES shell means you're messing with another game. Also, the cart has to be made so that it can be restored to stock if wanted or need be. No cutting out mask ROMs, etc. This is what I mean by nondestructive.

But it can only be a game that wasn't released outside of Japan or Europe. You might say, well why can't I take a Mother 2 cart and modify it to be Earthbound. Well, you can, but what's to stop you or the buyer from putting it in an NTSC-U SNES cart shell and trying to pass it off as a legit Earthbound cart? Nothing.

"But I want it in an North American SNES shell so it'll match the rest of my carts?" So you don't mind the destruction of other games to get what you want? Also, wouldn't you rather have the official, legit cart? Bootlegs have no value, even when they look real nice.

Hacks, mods, unreleased games... This is why we have FLASH CARTS!!!!

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=36353

They can all be played on flash carts, with the rare exception. If you really want a hack or a mod of a game on a cart, then make it from scratch!

Fan-translations can also be played on flash carts, and since they're easily available these days I really don't see much of a need for repros anymore.

No one should ever make a "repro" cart of a game just because it's too expensive. Like Earthbound. If you don't want to pay the going price of a game, then get a flash cart to play it on.
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by ejamer »

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Last edited by ejamer on Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by Retrogamer0001 »

mjmjr25 wrote:So you are ok with a racket member buying a known repro and selling it on ebay as a repro then that person we don't know selling it as original?
Why is it our job here to police what people do in their personal lives? We obviously can't control what others do, so why even make it an issue? We shouldn't allow people to buy and sell something because of something someone might do? I don't see the logic in this.
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by Frag Mortuus »

ejamer wrote:As a side-note, what's the difference between a repro and a bootleg? People are using the terms here like they are meaningfully different, but it seems like a straight euphemism to me.
A bootleg is a game that is a reproduction but is being sold as the real deal. A reproduction is sold with the understanding as to what it is. Most people looking for Secret of Mana 2 or Star Fox 2 know what they are getting. However, if I go to buy Earthbound and someone has just reproduced it and sold it to me as an original, then that is shady and is considered a bootleg.
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by ninjainspandex »

I'm seeing a lot of correlations between this argument and the argument for gun control here.
Frag Mortuus wrote:
ejamer wrote:As a side-note, what's the difference between a repro and a bootleg? People are using the terms here like they are meaningfully different, but it seems like a straight euphemism to me.
A bootleg is a game that is a reproduction but is being sold as the real deal. A reproduction is sold with the understanding as to what it is. Most people looking for Secret of Mana 2 or Star Fox 2 know what they are getting. However, if I go to buy Earthbound and someone has just reproduced it and sold it to me as an original, then that is shady and is considered a bootleg.
What about people who make uncensored repros of Earthbound, and have a custom label that looks nothing like the original Earthbound?
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by mjmjr25 »

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
mjmjr25 wrote:So you are ok with a racket member buying a known repro and selling it on ebay as a repro then that person we don't know selling it as original?
Why is it our job here to police what people do in their personal lives? We obviously can't control what others do, so why even make it an issue? We shouldn't allow people to buy and sell something because of something someone might do? I don't see the logic in this.
I only sell it, man.
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Ziggy
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Re: Reproductions: What is our community ok with?

Post by Ziggy »

BTW, go on NesDev and ask them how they feel about repro carts. You'll get an entirely new opinion from most of them. You'll be talking to (some of) the guys that put the hard time into making the patches for translations and mods. They do it for free, then watch all these people make these carts and profit from their hard work. I can completely understand how frustrating that must be.
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