Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

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o.pwuaioc
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

Post by o.pwuaioc »

Ziggy587 wrote:What AV solution is everyone using for their Dreamcast?

I ask because the Dreamcast AV output isn't exactly straight forward. Sure, you can get 480p VGA output, but not every game supports it. Some games you can trick, but others you cannot. Kind of a pain in the ass. There's the DC Digital HDMI mod, it's pretty expensive but it's what I would want if I were using my DC on an HDTV. I resolved to use the DC only on a CRT for now, and to go with regular old 480i RGB. But no one is making a quality RGB SCART cable, and making your own is kind of a pain in the ass. So I put some serious thought into just sticking with composite or S-Video, since it really doesn't look bad at all on a CRT.

I use s-video and it looks fine to me. Years ago when I had a proper LCD, I used VGA, but the difference on a CRT isn't really that noticeable.
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

Post by alienjesus »

Ziggy587 wrote:But not having a second joystick really hurt the console. When the Dreamcast launched, maybe it didn't matter so much. But FPS on consoles really blew up, and the PS2 controller could properly support them. There was just no good way to play these games on the DC controller. People always cite the PS2 having DVD, and also the huge piracy problem the DC had, which of course were huge problems for Sega. But the controller not being able to support a huge genre of gaming, I feel like that was a problem on the same level. Even outside of FPS games, two sticks were already standard for 3D games (one stick to move, one stick to control the camera). Even if the DC had a dual stick controller, would it still have failed? Maybe. But it's fun to imagine what could have been if it did.


Gotta disagree with you here - at the time the Dreamcast was relevant, the most iconic console FPS games were on N64, which only used one analogue stick. FPS for PS1 mostly were designed to playable with the default controller which had zero. The dual stick control scheme wasn't really standard at this time on console, and really wouldn't be until Halo came out on Xbox, by which point the Dreamcast was already gone. It probably would have been an issue eventually, but we'll never know what could have been.


Ziggy587 wrote:What AV solution is everyone using for their Dreamcast?

I ask because the Dreamcast AV output isn't exactly straight forward. Sure, you can get 480p VGA output, but not every game supports it. Some games you can trick, but others you cannot. Kind of a pain in the ass. There's the DC Digital HDMI mod, it's pretty expensive but it's what I would want if I were using my DC on an HDTV. I resolved to use the DC only on a CRT for now, and to go with regular old 480i RGB. But no one is making a quality RGB SCART cable, and making your own is kind of a pain in the ass. So I put some serious thought into just sticking with composite or S-Video, since it really doesn't look bad at all on a CRT.


I had mine set up with RGB via SCART until recently which was pretty decent. I find it to be annoying switching back and forth from VGA so sticking with RGB was OK by me. As of literally about a week ago, I upgraded to the HDMI mod so I'm excited to try the system again with 1080p visuals.
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

Post by Ziggy »

So I can use RGB cables on my PVM. But I have to reorganize my systems to fit in the Dreamcast, and I guess I've been too lazy to do that. But also, I have two 5-input switchers, so a total of 9 inputs. I currently have 1 input left open, but I want to also use that when I finally RGB mod my NES. So I'd have to make a hard choice about which consoles to have connected via RGB. Using the Dreamcast over composite or S-Video would solve that problem.

alienjesus wrote:Gotta disagree with you here - at the time the Dreamcast was relevant, the most iconic console FPS games were on N64, which only used one analogue stick. FPS for PS1 mostly were designed to playable with the default controller which had zero. The dual stick control scheme wasn't really standard at this time on console, and really wouldn't be until Halo came out on Xbox, by which point the Dreamcast was already gone. It probably would have been an issue eventually, but we'll never know what could have been.


The N64 controller only had one stick, yes, but the N64 controller was able to get away with it in a way that the DC cannot. The N64's C buttons functioned as a second stick, and made those FPS games extremely playable on a console. And then you still have two face buttons in addition to the shoulder buttons. The Dreamcast couldn't do this, so it made the few FPS it had very hard to play. Even if the DC kept the ABC/XYZ layout with L and R shoulder buttons, the size and spacing of the C buttons on the N64 made it comfortable to use as a second stick.

The PS1 Dual Shock controller came out in 97, so yes, I suppose there were some FPS on the PS1 before then. Like DOOM. But that's the pre-Goldeneye/Turok. After the Dual Shock controller came out, all of the FPS's on PS1 took advantage of that. Not that the PS1 was known for amazing FPS. But Sega really dropped the ball on this one. Sony had a controller with two sticks, the N64's C buttons functioned as a second stick so it essentially had two sticks. Games like Goldeneye and Turok on the N64 and Medal of Honor on the PS1 proved that FPS could do very well on consoles. Sega really should have seen it coming, everyone else seemed to have. Sure, Halo's insane popularity really made console FPS's blow up. But there were still popular console FPS around leading up to Halo, and the Dreamcast ports really suffered because of the controller. Like Quake III and Unreal Tournament.

Let's say the PS2 wasn't also a DVD player, and let's say there was no piracy issue with the Dreamcast. I think the console would have been left in the dust in the post-Halo world. FPS on consoles really took off that generation, and the Dreamcast wouldn't have done well at all with them. Developers wouldn't have wanted to port their FPS's to the DC. But I suppose Sega, if they didn't have other issues with the Dreamcast, could have released an updated controller with two sticks. It worked for the Genesis, and it worked for the original Xbox, it could have worked for the Dreamcast. But it seems like Sega was only interested in the kind of games that they were making themselves, which wasn't FPS.

But even still, 3D games outside of FPS (like platformers) took advantage of two sticks. One to move your character, the other to move the camera. Again, with the N64's C buttons handling this (what they were intended for). I know you can use L and R on the DC controller to swing the camera, but this isn't as good as a 360 degree movement that a stick has. And even still, using L and R for example means two less buttons for other things. Which the N64 or PS DS controller didn't have that problem. It always kind of baffled me that Sega sort of gimped the DC controller with less buttons.
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

Post by marurun »

It was absolutely not a given that dual analog sticks were the future when the Dreamcast was being developed and subsequently released, particularly as a solution for console FPS games. When the dual analog PS1 controller was released in April 1997 I believe it was intended more as a simulator/flight controller. The Dual Shock we know and love wasn’t actually released until 7 months later, and even then I’m not seeing dual analog controls as default in a console FPS until 2000 with Alien Resurrection, well after the debut of the Dreamcast. And even then Halo is credited as popularizing the control scheme as a result of it having done it with so much more quality and panache. I mean, Dreamcast FPS games supported keyboard and mouse.
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

Post by BoneSnapDeez »

Markies wrote:- Phantasy Star Online (Addicting Single Player Campaign)
- Skies Of Arcadia (Probably the best game on the console)


This.

PSO is the consummate "just one more quest / hour" video game. So much fun.

Skies of Arcadia is one of the precious few 50+ hour JRPGs that's actually worth replaying.
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

Post by Note »

My first experience with the Dreamcast came in the summer of '99, a few months prior to the US release of the system. My friend, whose mother would travel to Hong Kong for work once in a while, came back to NY from a work trip and had brought back a JP Dreamcast with a few games. If my memory serves me correctly, I believe the import games my friend had at the time were Sonic Adventure and Power Stone. I was really impressed with these games, when checking them out at my buddy's place. The graphics were a huge step above what was currently on the market. Later on, that same friend also had Crazy Taxi, Jet Set Radio, Guilty Gear X, and Ikaruga -- which were also awesome IMO, and left a lasting impression on me.

Another friend got the US system shortly after launch for a birthday gift, and he received House of the Dead 2 with his system, which I was impressed by as well. I hadn't had a chance to play the game in arcades, so this was my first time experiencing it. I remember spending a late night at his house replaying that game and the demo disc that was bundled with the system.

After checking out the system at my friends' places, I knew I wanted to get one. Luckily I did, that Christmas of '99! I also received Sonic Adventure and Soul Calibur, in which I played a lot of both games. Soul Calibur was amazing at the time, and still holds up today, IMO -- it's up there as one of my favorite 3D fighters. I did enjoy Sonic Adventure; however, my disc happened to be one that was defective, but I didn't find out until a bit later when I got stuck at a certain point in the game. This dampered my experience with the console a bit, as to this day I haven't finished Sonic Adventure, but I would like to give it another shot. I'm interested in picking up another copy, if I can find one without this issue.

The other games I really enjoyed and owned on the system back then were Jet Grind Radio, Shenmue, and Dynamite Cop, and Marvel Vs. Capcom 2. MVC2 was a big game with my circle of friends and on some Fridays after school, we would get together and go head to head. It was a lot of chaotic fun, and I will always associate that game with my few neighborhood friends and our high school years.

I didn't get a chance to play Phantasy Star Online until it's port to the Gamecube, but when I did, I went all out on it, and it's still one of my favorite action RPGs. Skies of Arcadia is another game I missed out on back then. I saw another friend of mine play it around the time of release, but I never picked it up until 2020. I finished it that same year, and it's definitely a great RPG -- highly recommend it to anyone that's interested! Another title I finally played and beat more recently was Shenmue 2, I loved the first one so it was great to finally experience the second game as well. Another title I discovered more recently and have had a lot of fun with is Zombie Revenge. It's a 3D beat 'em up, similar to Dynamite Cop but with a House of the Dead theme.

As for the "misses", as Markies mentioned, I had Quake III Arena around the time of release, but I just never got too into it. Maybe if it had a single player campaign, I would've been more drawn in. I also had Evolution: The World of Sacred Device and I couldn't get into it when I was younger, but I'd like to give it another go.

Dreamcast is one of my favorite consoles, and I've had a lot of good times and positive memories playing it over the years. My friends and I continued to play it for years after it was abandoned by Sega. In more recent years, I realized there are a lot of interesting games on the system that I missed out on, so I've started to explore the library a bit more, and admittedly I am missing some staples on the system, so I'd like to rectify that!
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

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Quick Dreamcast Notes:
    -I purchased mine on 9/10/99 with my first "career" paycheck one day after launch along with Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur, Blue Stinger, an extra controller, and two VMUs. I started my teaching career in 1999 and was crazy excited to buy a console at launch.

    -I currently have two DCs, one with the disc that is hooked up via VGA and one with a GDEMU hooked up to my CRT via S-Video. I love the way the DC looks on the CRT, plus I can still play lightgun games.

    -Hits: Skies of Arcadia, Sonic Adventure, MvC (both), NCAA Football (Still play to this day), House and Typing of the Dead, PSO, XenoCrisis, and Jet Grind Radio

    -Misses: Sonic Adventure 2, Blue Stinger, Evolution, The SEGA racing games
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

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Some of the Sega racing games on the DC were great, but I am confused with the ones that were not given their arcade history. Sega Rally 2 felt good but should have looked and performed better (why WinCE for this game?) Sega GT should have been a smash, but the controls were the issue (I’ve heard it’s a lot better with a steering wheel). How did so many competitors one up them so dramatically? It’s a GREAT platform for racing games, just not Sega racers.
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

Post by opa »

My favorites on the system are Test Drive LeMans and Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2. Both well worth checking out.
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Re: Console of the Month (Feb 2023): Dreamcast

Post by prfsnl_gmr »

marurun wrote:Some of the Sega racing games on the DC were great, but I am confused with the ones that were not given their arcade history. Sega Rally 2 felt good but should have looked and performed better (why WinCE for this game?) Sega GT should have been a smash, but the controls were the issue (I’ve heard it’s a lot better with a steering wheel). How did so many competitors one up them so dramatically? It’s a GREAT platform for racing games, just not Sega racers.


Dreamcast Daytona USA is still the best version, IMO.
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