[8:42pm] dsheinem: Welcome to the first Racketboy Game Book club chat! We're here to discuss the first few chapters of "The Future Was Here" by Jimmy Maher
[8:42pm] dsheinem: Question #1: What are everyone's general thoughts on the book so far - what do you like and not like on terms of style, subject matter, etc.?[8:43pm] noiseredux: I personally am finding it a bit more obtuse compared to Chasing The Beam. Not quite as page-turner-esque.
[8:44pm] dsheinem: can you clarify a bit what you mean by "obtuse"? is it the writing style?
[8:44pm] Nemoide: I think the book is pretty well laid-out, it doesn't dumb things down but doesn't get too technical to lose me. I think the days of multiple CPU architectures are interesting - I studied computer science as an undergrad so I might have a better handle on things than the average reader, but I like the technical parts.
[8:44pm] noiseredux: I think more the subject -- that is we're talking computer system which is more technical than VCS was.
[8:45pm] noiseredux: First chapter was hardware talk -- fine. Setup. 2nd chapter was the demo and I found that really interesting. Though had to go slow with it. But third with Deluxe Paint seemed to just lose me. I don't know... more technical than Racing The Beam was it seems.
[8:45pm] dsheinem: Like you, noise, I am struggling not to compare it to RTB though the comparison is a tough one as I was VERY familiar with Atari's history and the VCS library and am not at all familiar with the Amiga.
[8:45pm] noiseredux: Yes exactly.
[8:45pm] noiseredux: that's probalby my problem too.
[8:46pm] dsheinem: I feel like - even with the videos on the site - it is hard to understand entirely the novelty of the concepts he's discussing.
[8:46pm] noiseredux: I already understood much of the VCS and its library and what was under its hood.
[8:46pm] noiseredux: Oh, I'm glad I'm not the only one haha.
[8:46pm] noiseredux: I found the bouncing ball impressive, don't get me wrong.
[8:46pm] dsheinem: Nemoide what wa the thinking behind multiple CPUs - when did it change and why?
[8:46pm] Nemoide: I also think it does a good job at putting the intro of the Amiga in place with the culture of the day, as described by the trade show in which "Boing" was shown.
[8:47pm] noiseredux: ^yes
[8:47pm] noiseredux: I liked that a lot Nemoide, like I mentioned in the thread I showed my wife the demo and said "this is the same year as SMB."
[8:47pm] Nemoide: the thinking behind multiple CPUs? It's because multiple processors can "lighten the load" amongst them
[8:47pm] noiseredux: so that's a great perspective y'know?
[8:47pm] dsheinem: agreed, I sort of wish there was more of that (on culture) but understand that "cultural impact" is a secondary goal of the series.
[8:48pm] Nemoide: for instance, people nowadays get video cards to plug their computer into - that's actually another processor for the computer, one dedicated to graphics
[8:48pm] dsheinem: so why not use multiple CPUs in consoles/computers still? If it was practical then, why not in a PS3, 360, etc.?
[8:48pm] Nemoide: it means the MAIN CPU can spend its time on more behind the scenes stuff
[8:48pm] noiseredux: don't they?
[8:48pm] noiseredux: In computers isn't there multiple processors now?
[8:49pm] noiseredux: Dual-core?
[8:49pm] noiseredux: or am I stupid?
[8:49pm] Nemoide: they do - "quad core" is basically "four little processors in one thing"
[8:49pm] Nemoide: the downside used to be that it was expensive
[8:49pm] noiseredux: Nemoide, was the Saturn a dual-processor machine?
[8:49pm] Nemoide: Saturn was indeed a dual processor machine
[8:50pm] noiseredux: ok, so I'm not stupid.
[8:50pm] Nemoide: and that's just counting CPUs, if you want to get technical, there's a "central" processor, an "audio" processor, a "graphics" processor in all the old systems - or at least that's my understanding of it
[8:50pm] dsheinem: So are the chapter topics interesting? It makes sense to start with Boing I gather - but what about DPaint?
[8:51pm] noiseredux: Boing was more interesting -- overall -- than DP.
[8:54pm] Nemoide: Deluxe Paint chapter was interesting but I think the author spent a little too much time forming DP into a solid narrative and I would have preferred more historical context. In the years between versions, other computers became much more advanced and I would have liked some side talk about their influence on the computer world.
[8:56pm] dsheinem: that gets at my comment about NeXT in the thread a bit, Nemoide, which is admittedly only fresh in my mind becasue of the Issacson Jobs book i read last year which discussed it and Lisa a good but
[8:57pm] dsheinem: *a good bit
[8:57pm] noiseredux: it's a good point Nem. And maybe part of why I got bored halfway thru Ch3.
[8:57pm] noiseredux: There was little for me to latch onto -- conextually.
[8:57pm] noiseredux: *contextually.
[8:58pm] noiseredux: I don't know I found it tough to really read about a paint program further than say 15 pages.
[8:58pm] noiseredux: Like I said, the Andy Warhol / screen vs physical product thing was really interesting to me though.
[8:59pm] dsheinem: The middle part of the Paint chapter is a little rough compared to the first and last parts. It really does get better at the end by providing more context stuff like what you are looking for.
[8:59pm] key-glyph: I like how technical it is. I kept having "a-ha!" moments as I went along, because I'm really bent on understanding it as I go.
[8:59pm] Nemoide: that's fair, it's kind of tough to see Paint as a big deal in a world where it's become standard on pretty much every PC for the past 20 years
[8:59pm] noiseredux: yeah, and I'm sorry I didn't finsh. That goes back to comparing this book to RTB, in which RTB felt like "oh god I have to read more before i go to bed" and this chapter felt like... uh "I guess I have to read more......"
[9:00pm] CFFJR: It did go on a bit, and kind of got to a point where he seemed like he had to keep discussing it just to finish off every version of the program, even past the point where it was really relevant anymore to the rest of the world. The section of DP5 was just kind of, it came out and that's it. No one noticed.
[9:01pm] dsheinem: no worries noise, there are no chat prereqs
[9:01pm] key-glyph: It's true. The going is slow. Very slow at times.
[9:01pm] dsheinem: the stuff at the end about two resolutions on the same screen was really interesting I thought.
[9:01pm] noiseredux: *just to put it in perspective, who else besides me and Dave read Racing The Beam?
[9:02pm] key-glyph: I thought the Extra Half Brite mode was a brilliant concept.
[9:02pm] CFFJR: Yeah that was really cool, I didn't know that existed pre windows.
[9:02pm] dsheinem: ok, to keep things moving...Question 2
[9:02pm] dsheinem: Question #2: Have you been compelled yet to play around with Amiga software via original hardware or emulation? If so, what have you done? if not, what would compel you?[9:03pm] CFFJR: I would love to, and I've been meaning to for a while actually. Just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'd emulate, but I don't really want to pay for the emulator when I'd really like to buy an actual amiga one day.
[9:03pm] Nemoide: I haven't played around with any Amiga stuff beyond watching demos on the book's web site
[9:03pm] CFFJR: I wish my cousin still had his, heh
[9:04pm] noiseredux: I've been in Dreamcast mode lately so I ordered a DC keyboaard and mouse to mess with Amiga emulation there. I'm waiting on my SD card reader to show up, so I've only done very little emulating thus far.
[9:04pm] noiseredux: I have been compelled though.
[9:04pm] dsheinem: I have not yet played around with any Amiga stuff other than to investigate the emulators that exist for various platforms - and to discover that the good one costs money
[9:04pm] key-glyph: I haven't played around yet. I'd like to mess around with DP and really understand what it was capable of. I just looked at some website gallery of Amiga art and it's crazy what that thing could do.
[9:04pm] Nemoide: I really just don't like emulators much. Maybe it's just a wacky romantic fixation in my mind, but to me I want the hardware or else I'm not very interested?
[9:04pm] dsheinem: link to the art key?
[9:05pm] noiseredux: I don't like emulators either, but Amiga's aren't so common in the States.
[9:05pm] key-glyph:
http://amiga.lychesis.net/[9:05pm] Nemoide: (and even if I could get one for free, I don't have ROOM for another old computer)
[9:05pm] key-glyph: There's not a lot, but what's there is really smooth.
[9:05pm] dsheinem: wow great link key, thnaks
[9:06pm] key-glyph: I was actually specifically trying to find games whose graphics were created on the Amiga that were then ported to other systems -- he mentions that somewhere, that even games that weren't designed for the system were created with the system. That intrigued me.
[9:06pm] key-glyph: I kept wondering if the gorgeous backgrounds of Monkey Island were made in DP or something.
[9:06pm] dsheinem: lots of Amiga games were ported to the Genesis
[9:07pm] CFFJR: Mega Turrican is a port of Turrican 2 isn't it?
[9:07pm] dsheinem: given EA's early relationship with Sega on that console, you'd have to figure they were a company doing that kind of porting
[9:07pm] key-glyph: That's true.
[9:07pm] Nemoide: I'm pretty sure "Baron Baldric" is an Amiga game that had a DOS release. (I know it because Apogee/3D Realms published a sequel called Mystic Towers I played when I was younger.)
[9:07pm] Retrosportsgamer: I think it is under the EA section that he mentions that
[9:07pm] Retrosportsgamer: I enjoyed chapter 3 considerably more than 2
[9:08pm] dsheinem: So far it sounds like no one has actually played around
[9:08pm] Retrosportsgamer: I read chapter 3 tonight, and the other day spent way too much time on an amiga game site looking at box art and screenshots
[9:08pm] Nemoide: BTW, does anyone know what programming languages the Amiga supported?
[9:09pm] key-glyph: I have to say, for all the scholarly writing, I do really like that this author rips into machines and companies he doesn't like as he writes (Dsh's mention of EA reminded me of this).
[9:09pm] dsheinem: I think if there was a good emulator for PSP, for iOS, or OSX I'd be more inclined to emulate - but when i sit at my Desktop lately it is for Borderlands 2 exclusively lol
[9:09pm] Nemoide: (Never mind -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_prog ... uages)[9:09pm] dsheinem: the snide remarks about EA are kind of funny, if not completely substantiated
[9:09pm] dsheinem: e.g. the claim that they've been vapid since trip left
[9:10pm] Nemoide: the difference between old and new EA is still pretty noticable
[9:11pm] dsheinem: sure, but EA has made many great games in the past 20 years, despite also pushing out sequels ad nauseum
[9:11pm] Retrosportsgamer: dsh - he goes out of his way to emphasize that TWICE in the span of a couple pages
[9:11pm] Nemoide: I have Timothy Leary's Mind Mirror for Apple II put out by EA and it has this whole "computers will change the minds of a generation" vibe to the packaging and manual that is totally different from anything you would see them put out nowadays
[9:12pm] Nemoide: I don't think he's being unfair
[9:12pm] dsheinem: yeah, rsg, i noticed. anyway, more thoughts on what would spur you to start emualting/playing with Amiga? I am a bit surprised no one has
[9:12pm] key-glyph: I'm taking it with a grain of salt. I don't know enough of the history to take sides based on what he says, but I tend to like the fervor of programmers and computer buffs who love their chosen machines, companies, etcetera.
[9:12pm] CFFJR: For what its worth dsh, I did play an amiga when I was a kid.
[9:13pm] Nemoide: and as I said in the thread, I used one in high school... but only for the Video Toaster program
[9:13pm] dsheinem: I wish I had CFF, that would add something to my reading I think
[9:13pm] dsheinem: yeah Nemoid that was a great story
[9:13pm] key-glyph: I don't know why I'm not more compelled, honestly. Maybe if I read about some groundbreaking games in the text, it would get me inspired to try those out. But so far I'm content just absorbing what he's outlining.
[9:14pm] Retrosportsgamer: I'm sure I will as I get more into the book
[9:14pm] Retrosportsgamer: i'm going in pretty blind so enjoying the build up
[9:14pm] key-glyph: I agree, RSG. I'd never even seen an Amiga, to my knowledge. I checked out the wikipedia page just to know what it looked like.
[9:14pm] Retrosportsgamer: did the amiga have the same kind of mouse that the Mac did
[9:14pm] dsheinem: Ok, so on to question 3: Question #3: Can you think of other tech demos for other systems that have impressed you? Do you understand the tech behind them?[9:15pm] Nemoide: I remember being BLOWN AWAY when I first saw the Sega Saturn with a game demo in a store
[9:15pm] dsheinem: I will chime in here with the 32X tech demo, which I didn't see until a few years ago but which is stunning. Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOWZbydnlZE[9:15pm] CFFJR: I was just going to mention that damn it, ha
[9:15pm] Nemoide: I didn't understand the technology, but it looked way better than anything else I had seen outside an arcade with Virtua Fighter or something
[9:15pm] CFFJR: I was always impressed by that demo, but I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes
[9:15pm] noiseredux: tech demos... that's a great question....
[9:16pm] key-glyph: Watching.
[9:16pm] noiseredux: what constitutes a "tech demo" rather than ... just a demo?
[9:16pm] dsheinem: it isn't of a game
[9:16pm] dsheinem: just a demo to show off effects, basically
[9:16pm] noiseredux: ok, interesting.
[9:16pm] CFFJR: remember mario 128? tech demo
[9:16pm] noiseredux: 128?
[9:17pm] dsheinem: if you have seen any of the recent Unreal Engine 4 stuff that would count. The Unreal engines have always had nice advance tech demos
[9:17pm] dsheinem: i do not, cff - link?
[9:17pm] noiseredux: oh wait,
[9:17pm] CFFJR: let me see if I can find one
[9:17pm] noiseredux: like the Quantum Dream demo that came out before the new game premiered?
[9:17pm] noiseredux: *Quantic
[9:18pm] dsheinem: not sure what that is noise
[9:18pm] Retrosportsgamer: I thought the quip about the boing demo working behind the OS and that being frowned upon in manuals by the same guys who did the demo was pretty funny
[9:18pm] dsheinem: if it is a game than that doesn't count
[9:18pm] CFFJR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgtFXXzE8bk[9:18pm] noiseredux: ugh I can't remember the name Dave. Was a woman's name I believe. Earlier this year before the demo for the new game with Ellen Page came out.
[9:18pm] CFFJR: Its a gamecube demo
[9:18pm] dsheinem: oh that is cool cff, never seen that
[9:19pm] noiseredux: I've never seen this either.
[9:20pm] noiseredux: I'm having a tough time thinking of tech demos, though I've generally shied away from most demos in general
[9:20pm] key-glyph: I can't think of a single demo. I'm blanking out.
[9:20pm] noiseredux: I thought the Boing thing was great when I read about it but...
[9:21pm] key-glyph: But I loved the story of the guys working on the code the night before (?) the Boing demo, and how they were writing it on a different computer, and then transferring the files over to the Amiga machine to actually be run.
[9:21pm] Nemoide: I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I could have seen a tech demo that I also cared about (because seeing previews for post-Dreamcast graphics seems to be minor things I don't care about like how lighting behaves and I'm only 26 so anything older than that is before my time)
[9:22pm] noiseredux: yeah me too Key! The whole thing about writing another system and then transferring it was fascinating.
[9:23pm] key-glyph: It reminded me of behind-the-scenes stuff on the original TRON movie -- how they didn't have programs that would run computer animation yet, so they were sending frame-by-frame coordinates to programmers to render, and then having to wait to see the finished product to know if it actually worked, animation-wise.
[9:23pm] dsheinem: Question #4: (thinking towards a later interview…) What question would you want to ask the author at this stage in the reading?[9:24pm] Nemoide: I'd just be curious as to his personal history of using computers
[9:24pm] Retrosportsgamer: agree with nemoide
[9:24pm] noiseredux: I'd ask his wife's technical background, haha. He mentioned she proof-read and told him when things were too technical. I don't think I'm a n00b to reading about this kind of material, but I feel like kind of an idiot reading this book sometimes.
[9:24pm] CFFJR: Chapter 2 did that to me...
[9:24pm] Retrosportsgamer: does he talk about how long it took him to write
[9:25pm] dsheinem: i don't recall him saying so (about time)
[9:25pm] key-glyph: In the beginning, a little bit. In the foreword he talks about the amount of research he had to do.
[9:25pm] dsheinem: does he mention how long it took?
[9:25pm] key-glyph: I don't think so.
[9:25pm] dsheinem: (i forget)
[9:25pm] noiseredux: can't remember either.
[9:25pm] key-glyph: I'm checking.
[9:26pm] key-glyph: I don't think he does, specifically, from glancing over it.
[9:26pm] key-glyph: I can't wait until he talks about the guy who wrote the first Amiga virus, if he gets to it.
[9:26pm] dsheinem: there's a chapter on it
[9:26pm] Retrosportsgamer: he drops the "game playing" machine description a lot but hasn't touched on it yet - guessing that's to come. The book structure tackles subjects over the Amiga's entire lifespan - which is different
[9:26pm] dsheinem: coming up in the next 1/3 i think
[9:26pm] Retrosportsgamer: but necessarily bad
[9:27pm] key-glyph: Nice. (I haven't looked ahead.)
[9:27pm] dsheinem: there is NOT a lot of game specific stuff which, in hindsight, makes it an odd choice for the innagural book
[9:27pm] Nemoide: I'd also be curious as to where he sees the the place of "platform studies" within academia. It's kind of discussed in the "series forward", but that sounds more like an advertising pitch than anything else
[9:27pm] dsheinem: but there's some coming, specifically on Psygnosis
[9:27pm] Retrosportsgamer: i mean, chapter on DPaint which covers the amiga from start to finish - so you get bits and pieces about how the Amiga died out
[9:29pm] dsheinem: Nemoide Platform Studies as a series as I understand it is an attempt to show the creativity and artistry behind coding and development without specifically focusing on the end product or its cultural impact
[9:29pm] key-glyph: I think I'd ask him his opinion on computer and gaming graphics of today. Because the Amiga was so ahead of its time, and clearly the "realism" of what it could do was such a big deal, I wonder if he's enthusiastic about the importance graphics have taken on in today's culture.
[9:29pm] dsheinem: in other words, understanding the medium and how people did amazing work in it
[9:29pm] key-glyph: Realistic graphics, I mean.
[9:29pm] noiseredux: yes,
[9:29pm] dsheinem: (medium is roughly translated to platform in the above)
[9:30pm] noiseredux: Platform Studies is more about the medium than the effect it had. The limitations and so on.
[9:30pm] Nemoide: it makes sense, but I'd want his personal thoughts on it
[9:30pm] Retrosportsgamer: are there any otehr books that focus on the amiga's cultural effect?
[9:30pm] Retrosportsgamer: or commodore's management issues?
[9:31pm] dsheinem: i don't think there's another Amiga book approaching this. There is a comprehensive history on the web I linked to in the OP which is lenghty and well written
[9:31pm] dsheinem: (at least the parts I've skimmed are...)
[9:32pm] Retrosportsgamer: interesting
[9:32pm] noiseredux: that thread on RB about Amiga is amazing haha.
[9:32pm] Retrosportsgamer: a good companion ot the book
[9:32pm] Retrosportsgamer: to* this book
[9:32pm] dsheinem: yeah indeed
[9:32pm] dsheinem: anyway, if there are no more "questions for the author" then we are now in free for all time[9:32pm] noiseredux: I think I read that thread 3 times. So good.
[9:33pm] noiseredux: I have a two-part question if y'all can oblige me....
[9:33pm] Nemoide: BTW, I just checked Wikipedia, apparently the most recent version of AmigaOS came out in August of this year. Apparently it runs on PowerPC architecture comps (which is nowadays mostly used for fancy-pants workstations)
[9:33pm] Nemoide: I wonder if the book will get to more current Amiga usages.
[9:33pm] dsheinem: sure, noise
[9:34pm] noiseredux: (1) Did you read Racing The Beam prior to this book, and if so (2) how do you feel this book holds up to capturing your attention and illuminating your mind?
[9:34pm] dsheinem: illuminating my mind?
[9:34pm] noiseredux: I was trying to be poetic.
[9:35pm] dsheinem: bad idea
[9:35pm] dsheinem:
[9:35pm] noiseredux: suck it.
[9:35pm] dsheinem: j/k
[9:35pm] noiseredux:
[9:35pm] key-glyph: Illuminating with full brightness or extra half brite mode?
[9:35pm] key-glyph: Waaah waaaaaaah
[9:35pm] dsheinem: lol
[9:35pm] noiseredux: lol
[9:35pm] noiseredux: take pt2 how you will hahah.
[9:35pm] key-glyph: I haven't read Racing the Beam, but it comes up so much I feel like I should.
[9:35pm] Nemoide: LAFF RIOT
[9:36pm] key-glyph:
[9:36pm] CFFJR: I did not read racing the beam, though I'd really like to. The future was here has been sucking me in though. As was said, there have been slow parts, but for the most part I've been really into it. I had to force myself to stop reading at ch.3
[9:36pm] dsheinem: 1) yes, 2) a- not as well because I don't know the hardware/software personally b - I feel like I am being "more illuminated" as I am learning about things I had no idea about vs more about things I had some idea about
[9:36pm] CFFJR: he totally lost me at the binary bits though
[9:37pm] noiseredux: so Dave you're enjoying this book more or less?
[9:37pm] key-glyph: I have a hard time keeping the chronology in my head. My memory starts somewhere circa 1990, so I keep having trouble placing the Amiga in time. If that makes any sense.
[9:37pm] dsheinem: probably less so far, but it isn't strictly a fair comparison
[9:38pm] dsheinem: i was also much more familiar with Bogost's writing style, the people and history he referenced, etc.
[9:38pm] noiseredux: I know, I'm just curious overall.
[9:38pm] key-glyph: I keep thinking, "No way! I used something that was as advanced as this as a kid!" And then I remember, oh right, the Amiga was born the year I was born. So it predates that.
[9:39pm] key-glyph: I'm not explaining myself well.
[9:39pm] CFFJR: I get you
[9:39pm] dsheinem: i keep wondering why my parents bought is a TI-99/4a instead on an Amiga
[9:39pm] dsheinem: *us
[9:40pm] noiseredux: Illuminating: 4. To enlighten intellectually or spiritually; enable to understand.
[9:40pm] noiseredux: assholes.
[9:40pm] dsheinem: let me try that again: I keep wondering why my parents bought us a TI-99/4a instead of an Amiga
[9:40pm] CFFJR: lol
[9:40pm] key-glyph: Illuminating television!
[9:40pm] dsheinem: yeah but "illuminating your mind" is redundant
[9:40pm] noiseredux: so is your face.
[9:40pm] key-glyph: That was PBS's motto. I think.
[9:40pm] CFFJR: I'd like to point out that I didn't say one thing about the illumination. I'm on your side yo
[9:40pm] key-glyph: ::laughs::
[9:40pm] dsheinem: I'll brain think about a good retort, noise
[9:40pm] noiseredux: yeah CF is my boy.
[9:41pm] Nemoide: The Illuminatus Trilogy?
[9:41pm] Nemoide: (I got nothing)
[9:41pm] noiseredux: alright alright back to it,
[9:41pm] noiseredux: lol
[9:41pm] noiseredux: I' dont know much about TI-99 Dave
[9:41pm] noiseredux: how did that compare to Amiga in its day?
[9:41pm] dsheinem: it was likely cheaper. it was much less powerful and I think predates the Amiga by a few years too
[9:42pm] noiseredux: how about C64... was it around that era/power/etc?
[9:42pm] dsheinem: Ti99 and C64 were closer to same time
[9:42pm] noiseredux: I get a bit confused about the computers of that era.
[9:42pm] noiseredux: C64 was my first computer.
[9:42pm] dsheinem: yeah, the 99/4a was 81-83, though we got it in like 84 I think
[9:42pm] key-glyph: Loosely related to the transferring-code-for-the-Boing-demo story, here's a short clip of the original TRON team discussing what it was like to render computer animation in 1982 without a program to preview the results, if anyone's curious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGQUvKtTZdg[9:43pm] Nemoide: I'm under the impression that the average user didn't know much about the different types of computers because there were so many and for someone who never used a computer at all, it had to be overwhelming
[9:43pm] noiseredux: Okay, so I'm guessing that our parents being in the US didn't really buy into Amiga ? But why? Why was it a big hit in Europe but not here?
[9:43pm] Nemoide: (so would buy whatever sales people suggested?)
[9:43pm] key-glyph: I don't know if my parents even knew about the Amiga. They bought us an Apple IIe somewhere around 1992.
[9:44pm] noiseredux: I hate C64, then Tandy, and then finally a Windows machine around 96.
[9:44pm] Nemoide: Most folks weren't buying PCs in the 80s, whose that did probably had specific uses in mind like "taxes/accounting" or similar boring things
[9:44pm] noiseredux: rough.
[9:44pm] Nemoide: Amiga was all "graphics and professional production development" I can imagine that seeming like unnecessary fanciness
[9:44pm] noiseredux: you think Nemoide?
[9:45pm] noiseredux: you think it was frivolous at the time?
[9:45pm] Nemoide: I know the Amiga was commonplace in local TV stations, where it found a niche
[9:45pm] dsheinem: noise why do you think it was "big in Europe". I had that impression too but haven't seen evidence in the book yet
[9:46pm] noiseredux: not in the book, but more from forums and vg sites taht seem to state that Amiga was big in Europe.
[9:46pm] Nemoide: but yeah, I once heard someone playing a tape on the radio of a discussion between a mother/son about buying a computer in the 80s - he was telling her to ignore the sales guy who would try to convince her to get a printer, because printers were TOTALLY unnecessary expenses
[9:46pm] noiseredux: Things like Turrican are considred "Eurogames" it seems.
[9:46pm] Nemoide: so "fancy graphics" would seem frivolous in that kind of world
[9:46pm] key-glyph: It said something about the European popularity on the wikipedia page, I think.
[9:47pm] key-glyph: "The best selling model, the Amiga 500, was introduced in 1987 and became the leading home computer of the late 1980s and early 1990s in much of Western Europe. In North America success was more modest."
[9:47pm] CFFJR: The only one I ever played was in Europe, and I haven't even seen one since.
[9:47pm] noiseredux: that's been my understaning though can't back it up a tthe moment.. but I mean my understanding is SMS was huge in Brazil. Y'know? Things yuo've read/heard.
[9:47pm] dsheinem: ah, ok. that's a good example of context that would be good in the book. Would be nice to know that DPaint was big in Europe, for example
[9:48pm] noiseredux: I've had many friends with C64's.. but only one with Amiga and he special ordered it like 10 yrs ago.
[9:48pm] noiseredux: *eBayed it rather. Haha.
[9:49pm] dsheinem: do other folks have pressing book related questions?
[9:50pm] Nemoide: not... really?
[9:50pm] key-glyph: I can't think of anything.
[9:50pm] noiseredux: Ok wait.
[9:50pm] noiseredux: My one friend who owned an Amiga,
[9:50pm] key-glyph: I want a better explanation as to how HAM mode works. Meaning, I want to see a tutorial of it in action.
[9:50pm] dsheinem: there's no expectation that you would, just wanted to give everyone a chance!
[9:51pm] noiseredux: it was 10 yrs ago or so like I said, but he bought it for music purposes.
[9:51pm] key-glyph: (I bet there's one on YouTube; I just haven't looked)
[9:51pm] dsheinem: every time I read about HAM I think of Jay-Z/Kanye
[9:51pm] noiseredux: Anyone know anything about its musical capabilitie?
[9:51pm] noiseredux: Hahahahaha
[9:51pm] noiseredux: HARD AS A MOTHERFUCKER
[9:51pm] noiseredux:
[9:51pm] key-glyph: I think of that Five Guys... guy.
[9:52pm] dsheinem: I understood HAM basically to be like a special purpose RAM, no?
[9:52pm] Nemoide: I'm sure it could handle MIDI for musical purposes, which is something I've been personally obsessed with lately
[9:52pm] CFFJR: well it was definitely more capable (musically) than the consoles of the time. let me pull up a game example to compare...
[9:52pm] noiseredux: yes Nemoide, I'm fairly certain he was utilizing it for MIDI purposes.
[9:52pm] Nemoide: (MIDI data can be stored in a computer but then used to play other synthesizers/samplers/electronic music devices)
[9:52pm] key-glyph:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify[9:53pm] noiseredux: almost using it as a synth from which he control via MIDI keyboard.
[9:53pm] noiseredux: though I think he used it as a Tracker as well. Which is a bit over my head growing up musically in a Fruityloops-era haha.
[9:54pm] Nemoide: I don't know about it's own synth capabilities (I would assume it could handle what's called Frequency Modulation syntheses which I only really know about because I'm reading a book about synthesizers concurrently with this one)
[9:54pm] dsheinem: so it is like RAM that is specifically for compression (from a quick glance at that link)
[9:54pm] noiseredux: but he bought the damn thing as a musical instrument and nothing else, so that's interesting to me.
[9:54pm] CFFJR: Have a listen to this noise, the original version of this song from the lotus games on Amiga:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kes7RQFn ... re=related[9:54pm] Nemoide: but yeah, using it as what's called a "sequencer" would make the most thing to me
[9:54pm] CFFJR: vs. the genesis version of the same song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPS7ExajroM[9:54pm] noiseredux: ^yeah well Tracker is like an early version of Sequncer no?
[9:55pm] Nemoide: yeah
[9:55pm] noiseredux: like a tracker is displayed in numbers rather than GUI.
[9:55pm] Nemoide: I think they're the same... I think
[9:55pm] dsheinem: nice CFFJR, very helpful links
[9:55pm] noiseredux: Tracker is numbers. Sequencer is Graphics.
[9:55pm] dsheinem: i kinda like the crunchines of the Genesis version, but the Amiga sound is really impressive
[9:56pm] key-glyph: Man, this song rules.
[9:56pm] Nemoide: also, I just realized that if the "Boing" demo used a sampled audio, you could probably get all kinds of fancy sounds out of it
[9:56pm] CFFJR: agreed
[9:56pm] noiseredux: I think a Tracker is like Basic and Sequencer is like Visual Basic y'know?
[9:56pm] dsheinem: lotus wasn't a CD based Amiga game?
[9:56pm] Nemoide: also, I'm loving the Genesis version but I'll grant the Amiga more technical capability
[9:56pm] CFFJR: I don't believe so...
[9:56pm] dsheinem: I know there's a Sega CD lotus release
[9:57pm] CFFJR: I remember playing at least one of the two amiga games off a floppy
[9:58pm] dsheinem: this should go in the OP:
http://www.lemonamiga.com/[9:58pm] noiseredux: brb
[9:58pm] key-glyph: Compare to the built-in sound of the Apple IIe in the game Karateka:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKqk9kosCs4 (sound starts at 1:00)
[9:58pm] key-glyph: The Boing demo sound was sampled with an Apple II, though, which I thought was pretty cool.
[9:59pm] dsheinem: an apple 2 with some external hardware, right?
[9:59pm] dsheinem: they talked about apple's sound being no good
[10:00pm] dsheinem: anyway, I am going to sign off as I have some other stuff to do tonight
[10:00pm] Nemoide: yep - I actually got some old issues of Electronic Musician magazine off eBay recently that had an ad for the same hardware they used to record the Boing sound
[10:00pm] key-glyph: They don't know what the setup was, it says.
[10:00pm] dsheinem: I'd like to thank you all for showing up to do this - it was fun!
[10:00pm] Nemoide: (or the assumed setup)
[10:00pm] Nemoide: yes!
[10:01pm] CFFJR: yeah it was
[10:01pm] Nemoide: good night! Go productive yourself!
[10:01pm] key-glyph: Good night! Thanks Dsh!
[10:01pm] dsheinem: thanks to all. If there's more Amiga talk after I leave, can someone log it and send me the file?
[10:02pm] key-glyph: Oh, it does say what they think they used: a hardware product called the DX-1 Effects II from Decillionix, which consisted of two hardware components, one to sample sound and one to play that sound back (37).
[10:03pm] key-glyph: Is there a way to log it without copying and pasting?
[10:03pm] dsheinem: depends on the software you use. not sure if using web client.
[10:03pm] dsheinem: (in a browser)
[10:04pm] key-glyph: Right. I don't think I'm the man for the job in that case.
[10:04pm] Nemoide: (I'm going to go ahead and call *not-it*)
[10:04pm] Nemoide: HOW ABOUT THAT NOT-AMIGA THINGS THEN?
[10:04pm] dsheinem: ok, well if there's anything interesting at least let me know
[10:04pm] dsheinem: i need to run
[10:04pm] key-glyph: Sure!
[10:04pm] noiseredux left the chat room. (Quit:
http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[10:05pm] dsheinem: adios! see you here next month I hope!
