Random Gaming Thoughts

Anything that is gaming related that doesn't fit well anywhere else
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RCBH928
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by RCBH928 »

Ahem. Let me defend the N64. You had to be there. Here are some points:-

  1. First 3D platformer done right. It was mind boggling to see Mario run in 3D worlds in the castle and jumping in paintings for levels. I am not sure if this hub model has been done before. The game overall was perfect blend to create the greatest Mario WORLD experience. gameplay butter smooth.
  2. 3D on a cartidge that was something. 0 Load times, you turned into a skeleton waiting on PSX each time you open a door.
  3. The unique look of soft texture 3D was aesthetically pleasant to me
  4. First Kart racer in 3D, butter smooth like 60FPS
  5. Launch of Bros. franchise. I am not a fan but I recon its a huge game.
  6. First successfl FPS console(golden eye)
  7. First 4-screen split gameplay? (don't quote me on that)
  8. first analogue and z-trigger controller
  9. Zelda on 64 at that time recieved a perfect 10 mostly in reviews
  10. Launch paper mario
  11. The wrestling games in of pro-wrestling in its height of popularity
  12. 4-players local!!
  13. Golden age of RARE

There is probably more. Did it beat the PSX? NO. PSX was like your older brother cool adults console. But it offered a different experience especially with that 3 legged controller. It had way less titles than PSX but many of its games has high replay-ability especially with your social circle. It was family fun. From hardware perspective it was way more sturdier than PSX.

----------
Speaking of its generation, people here seem to look down on that generation. I see it as the greatest generation of all time, it opened the worlds of 3D. A lot of what we have today is refined PSX generation stuff. Wrestling games, 3D racers, 3D fighters, adventure games, 3D RPG, even hardware like memory cards. It had the most iconic of stuff like all the survival horror games, Tekken, MGS, GT, FFVI , Tomb Raider, Crash was the 3rd mascot next to Mari and Sonic and it worked. Tall plastic boxes and black CDs were very iconic to PSX at the time, albeit they dropped it later on idk why and I don't recall what colour it was replaced. General writable dvds became purplish. But a black CD was COOL. really gave a feeling this is not like your music CD, this is different, this is a PSX CD

It easy to look back now at Tomb Raider and compare it to the Last Of Us and say "Well this sucks" . But you had to see what it offered at its time. Thats like giving a 9 year old today a Gameboy meanwhile he plays Nintendo Switch. Tomb Raider was a sensation of its time so much so they created a movie on it in 1999, a rare occasion.

As for Saturn, I am old enough here to remember a time when Saturn was the members' favorite retro console. I believe there is a poll here somewhere buried in the archives. I was not a fan, 2D fighters were arcade like. It will forever be tied in my head with Nights Into Dreams. Thats the Saturn icon for me. The white one still looks beutiful. It had its share of uniqueness too.
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marurun
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by marurun »

I don't think anyone is arguing against the N64's historical importance. I think the detractors are mostly commenting on what it means to go back to it now. Not everything influential holds up on its own. Sometimes influences are indeed best remembered through the things they influenced.
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Limewater
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by Limewater »

RCBH928 wrote:[*]First 3D platformer done right. It was mind boggling to see Mario run in 3D worlds in the castle and jumping in paintings for levels. I am not sure if this hub model has been done before. The game overall was perfect blend to create the greatest Mario WORLD experience. gameplay butter smooth.


I do not like Mario 64. It has a lot of charm, a lot of good ideas, and some breathtaking visuals, but the camera was too bad and it relied too much of accurately gauging depth on an image projected onto a 2D screen.
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by Limewater »

RCBH928 wrote:Speaking of save states:
I don't see saving states as cheating , its saving the work that I already have done, more joy less frustration. Albeit I might consider it cheating if you use it mid-boss fights. None the less its the perfect response for the evil developers unfair tactics, you battle a boss for 15min and when you have 10% left of your life he suddenly transforms into his second more powerful form. MY STRATEGY IN THE BATTLE WAS BASED THAT HE HAD 1 FORM! That is not to mention 2d platformers that will have you jump on a stick then platforms or have the floor below you crumble and disappear into a pit right before you reach the save point. If that was your last life, now you have to repeat the 9 or so levels that you fair and square completed!

I don't have time for these mindless challenges, why should I finish Sonic in 1 go? Not to mention there is no way you will know the strategies to beat the bosses , you will have to meet them few times to figure it out with each time you have to replay the whole game up until you get to that boss again. Paying attention and calculating your jumps and hits take a lot of mind energy and causes stress (rage quits) .

If you want the challenge fine, but I am not winning an olympic medal here with multimillion dollar rewards. The way I see it, you wrote an essay in 1 day I wrote it over a week. In the end both you and I got the essay published.


Why would using a feature not represented in the game proper or intended by the developer not be cheating? And if you enjoy it why does it matter if it's cheating or not? The Konami code is generally called a "cheat code," and people love that.

Playing through a hard game using save states is an observably and measurably different experience than playing through it without. It's fine that it's different, but why deny that the difference exists?

I think I kicked off this last round of savestate discussion, so I feel I should remind people that I said in original post that I USE SAVESTATES.
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nickfil
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by nickfil »

Limewater wrote:
RCBH928 wrote:[*]First 3D platformer done right. It was mind boggling to see Mario run in 3D worlds in the castle and jumping in paintings for levels. I am not sure if this hub model has been done before. The game overall was perfect blend to create the greatest Mario WORLD experience. gameplay butter smooth.


I do not like Mario 64. It has a lot of charm, a lot of good ideas, and some breathtaking visuals, but the camera was too bad and it relied too much of accurately gauging depth on an image projected onto a 2D screen.


This is how I feel about a lot of n64 games. Mario, Zelda, Golden eye- all huge leaps forward. Critical historic games. Do I ever really want to play them again? Not really. If I want to play mario- There are a few modern ones I've missed. OoT is a classic, but I'll play through breath of the wild, Link's awakening, A link to the past or parallel worlds before I ever reach for it again.

And goldeneye is kinda almost unplayable by todays shooter standards. I SAID IT.
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PretentiousHipster
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by PretentiousHipster »

I noticed the brawler 64 controller makes n64 games a lot more playable.
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marurun
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by marurun »

I think I can understand why people love the N64 despite not loving it myself. Early attempts at 3D platforming were... weird at best, unplayable at worst. Mario 64 is the first game that really "got it". I don't think it completely holds up today. That said, it doesn't feel as antiquated as it should, given when it came out. Lots of later games made mistakes Mario 64 had already solved for the genre. I certainly am willing to go back and play a number of games other people would shake their head over, the original Dreamcast Sonic Adventure, for example: frustratingly problematic, but it still has personal value for me.
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Limewater
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by Limewater »

PretentiousHipster wrote:I noticed the brawler 64 controller makes n64 games a lot more playable.


While I don't love the N64, I have no problem with the controller and I don't understand people's complaints with it, except for the thumbstick durability issue.
I can kind of understand being confused the first time you see it and handle it, but I don't see that as a big deal.
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o.pwuaioc
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by o.pwuaioc »

Limewater wrote:
RCBH928 wrote:Speaking of save states:
I don't see saving states as cheating , its saving the work that I already have done, more joy less frustration. Albeit I might consider it cheating if you use it mid-boss fights. None the less its the perfect response for the evil developers unfair tactics, you battle a boss for 15min and when you have 10% left of your life he suddenly transforms into his second more powerful form. MY STRATEGY IN THE BATTLE WAS BASED THAT HE HAD 1 FORM! That is not to mention 2d platformers that will have you jump on a stick then platforms or have the floor below you crumble and disappear into a pit right before you reach the save point. If that was your last life, now you have to repeat the 9 or so levels that you fair and square completed!

I don't have time for these mindless challenges, why should I finish Sonic in 1 go? Not to mention there is no way you will know the strategies to beat the bosses , you will have to meet them few times to figure it out with each time you have to replay the whole game up until you get to that boss again. Paying attention and calculating your jumps and hits take a lot of mind energy and causes stress (rage quits) .

If you want the challenge fine, but I am not winning an olympic medal here with multimillion dollar rewards. The way I see it, you wrote an essay in 1 day I wrote it over a week. In the end both you and I got the essay published.


Why would using a feature not represented in the game proper or intended by the developer not be cheating? And if you enjoy it why does it matter if it's cheating or not? The Konami code is generally called a "cheat code," and people love that.

Playing through a hard game using save states is an observably and measurably different experience than playing through it without. It's fine that it's different, but why deny that the difference exists?

I think I kicked off this last round of savestate discussion, so I feel I should remind people that I said in original post that I USE SAVESTATES.

Cheating implies an unfair advantage. But who is losing out on using the Konami code? It's only cheating if it's in competition with another. So using save states to get a better score in a high score competition would be cheating, but just using it for one's own desire to see the end of a game isn't cheating, because there's no competition.

No one would say e.g. that watching a movie's ending before the rest of it is cheating or reading a book's spoilers before reading the book would be cheating.

nickfil wrote:
Limewater wrote:
RCBH928 wrote:[*]First 3D platformer done right. It was mind boggling to see Mario run in 3D worlds in the castle and jumping in paintings for levels. I am not sure if this hub model has been done before. The game overall was perfect blend to create the greatest Mario WORLD experience. gameplay butter smooth.


I do not like Mario 64. It has a lot of charm, a lot of good ideas, and some breathtaking visuals, but the camera was too bad and it relied too much of accurately gauging depth on an image projected onto a 2D screen.


This is how I feel about a lot of n64 games. Mario, Zelda, Golden eye- all huge leaps forward. Critical historic games. Do I ever really want to play them again? Not really. If I want to play mario- There are a few modern ones I've missed. OoT is a classic, but I'll play through breath of the wild, Link's awakening, A link to the past or parallel worlds before I ever reach for it again.

And goldeneye is kinda almost unplayable by todays shooter standards. I SAID IT.

Super depends. I'll take GoldenEye over modern shooters any day. Oh, look, this game is also brown and gray. Borderlands? Oh, look, another stupid fetch quest. Multiplayer? Yeah, right, noob, good luck against rage quitters, bots, and smack talking by 11 year olds. Modern games are the most irritating, bloated, overhyped experiences I've encountered, and shooters are the worst of the bunch. (This is exaggerated, of course, but the truth is all there.)

N64 isn't my favorite console by a long stretch, but I'd keep it over anything post-PS2.
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RCBH928
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Re: Random Gaming Thoughts

Post by RCBH928 »

As for the n64 controller, its not the most intuitive controller but it gives you a different experience. Just compare it to the previous SNES controller and now you have this? It was so exciting and cool! I was there. Its unique and different way to play the games. Playing Wii Sports was a really different experience than say a similar game on PS3 because of the controller. Consoles used to have a unique personality. Look at the current situation with PS5/XBSX.... they are near identical in every way, just pick one and go with it.

marurun wrote:I don't think anyone is arguing against the N64's historical importance. I think the detractors are mostly commenting on what it means to go back to it now. Not everything influential holds up on its own. Sometimes influences are indeed best remembered through the things they influenced.


hmmm... thats a weird thing to say on a retro forum. I thought the idea of retro games is to enjoy them for what they were, obviously something like Tomb Raider doesn't hold a candle next to `Uncharted Lost Legacy. The 2D stuff holds well because it kind of reached the pinnacle around the SNES era. Still looks good, in fact modern games being released with that look because its aesthetically pleasing but beyond graphics I don't think any one will enjoy Ghost 'N Goblins or Battletoads without a modern saving system, hardly any one will enjoy those in one go except those dedicated for a challenge.

Its so frustrating to reach the end of the game only to die because your finger slipped now you have to do the whole game all over again.

_____________________

@Limewater

Save states is saving my work while playing by the rules. Cheating is not playing by the rules, like adding lives in a platformer when you run out or get full arsenal on FPS on level 1.

I don't consider it cheating, but I would consider that I didn't not complete the challenge intended by the developer. And why should I care? Is it really more fun to say I completed Doom in 2 hours under the average 6 for example? Or that you defeated the boss with 100% life bar? What additional value or fun does this gives me? I also do not care about that since the developer intentionally made the game near impossible beat.

I mean just look at the Mad Hatter boss fight in Batman&Robin Genesis. There is a fast moving transparent checkerboard floor with random obstacles coming at you and a flying giant hate throwing bombs randomly at you for like 3 min. What brain can process so much? Whats the percentile of people that can finish this fight? Now whats the percentile of people that can finish the fight from the first attempt? now whats the percentile of people who can finish the whole game in one go?

Its like that electric buzzer game in funfairs , its made to defy average human capability.
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