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Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:57 am
by marurun
alienjesus wrote:Just because they were on PC doesn't mean they aren't defining games for the Amiga! Bullfrog was practically synonymous with the system after all.


This is true, but you also don't want the Defining list for a platform to be overrun with cross-platform titles, at least not if the best version of that title isn't on that platform. I think you have to curate those cross-platform selections carefully.

Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:04 am
by alienjesus
marurun wrote:
alienjesus wrote:Just because they were on PC doesn't mean they aren't defining games for the Amiga! Bullfrog was practically synonymous with the system after all.


This is true, but you also don't want the Defining list for a platform to be overrun with cross-platform titles, at least not if the best version of that title isn't on that platform. I think you have to curate those cross-platform selections carefully.


I thoroughly disagree. In the case of nearly all the games I listed, the amiga was often the lead platform, the first version of the game, the game was developed on Amiga, or all 3. The Amiga also captured much of it's market in Europe due to it's affordability compared to PCs of the era. Denying a game was defining for the system because it's better on PC is kinda like saying that Street Fighter isn't a defining game for Super Nintendo because theres a better version on 3DO.

The fact is, some consoles are entirely defined by games that are now available in superior forms on other platforms. It doesn't change the fact that those games are what defined them. If you leave off the stuff that I listed in favour of Amiga exclusives then you start delving into Hidden Gem territory, or worse, insignificant games no-one really cared about then OR now. 90s European computer games were generally ported EVERYWHERE - if you want to talk defining Amiga titles, you have to be prepared to talk multiplatform, that's just how the market was.

Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:08 am
by marurun
You make a very good argument. I will bow out to your well-thought words.

Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:15 am
by alienjesus
I argue passionately considering I've never owned the system. But I know people who grew up with the thing, and they get that staring into space nostalgia look when they talk about some of the games I listed :lol:

Alsom I partially lie - I do actually have an Amiga 500+, but I don't have a power supply or any games for it, so I've never been able to test if it works

Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:20 am
by marurun
I think part of my lack of perspective comes from the fact that the Amiga was decidedly an also-ran in the US. It was superior to all comers when it first came out, but the PC rapidly caught up and surpassed it, at least for audio and visuals. So the US was largely defined by the Apple II series on the low end and the PC on the high-end, with the Commodore 64 and the Macintosh being the primary underdogs in the low and high spaces, respectively. I know the Amiga didn't bomb in the US, but it didn't have a comfortable niche, either.

Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:26 am
by alienjesus
marurun wrote:I think part of my lack of perspective comes from the fact that the Amiga was decidedly an also-ran in the US. It was superior to all comers when it first came out, but the PC rapidly caught up and surpassed it, at least for audio and visuals. So the US was largely defined by the Apple II series on the low end and the PC on the high-end, with the Commodore 64 and the Macintosh being the primary underdogs in the low and high spaces, respectively. I know the Amiga didn't bomb in the US, but it didn't have a comfortable niche, either.


The UK computer market was much broader, with the Commdore 64 and ZX Spectrum still having a place in the market in the early 90s, and computers like the Amiga, Atari ST and PC also competing in the market. As far as games go, the Amiga was the clear winner here in the earlier part of the 90s. Things changed as PCs became cheaper, Windows 95 happened, Commodore went under and all of that jazz as the 90s continued.

At the time, I was pretty young though, so a lot of my info is second hand. My family also didn't make enough money to afford any of those computers or enough technical know-how to set one up and use it. I was a console kid. I actually got my first PC at the age of 14 or 15, sometime around 2002 :lol:

Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:29 am
by marurun
Yeah, money was an issue in my family, too. I had an Apple II by way of a cousin getting rid of his, but it wasn't until I was in high school that we transitioned to a very low-end Mac.

Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:30 pm
by Ivo
I think early Bullfrog games were defining in the Amiga, but the later ones were PC games first and "inferior" ports on Amiga when it was (slowly) dying as a platform. I'd personally not include those.

I had an A500 and have very fond memories of playing Syndicate on it.

I don't think Theme Park. was a "defining" game of the Amiga though. Actually that is basically the only one I really disagree from your list.

I'd replace Agony with Apidya, but maybe that is because I played the bee and not the owl.

Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:36 pm
by alienjesus
Ivo wrote:I think early Bullfrog games were defining in the Amiga, but the later ones were PC games first and "inferior" ports on Amiga when it was (slowly) dying as a platform. I'd personally not include those.

I had an A500 and have very fond memories of playing Syndicate on it.

I don't think Theme Park. was a "defining" game of the Amiga though. Actually that is basically the only one I really disagree from your list.

I'd replace Agony with Apidya, but maybe that is because I played the bee and not the owl.


I'd be up for hearing an argument either way on Theme Park.

I thought about listing Apidya, but I wasn't sure how popular the game was at the time. Agony I went with because it's Psygnosis, another developer heavily associated with the system.

Re: The Primer Guide to Amiga Gaming

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:07 am
by Ivo
Theme park was made for the PC and ported to many platforms, and it came out when the Amiga was already in decline. It is definitely not what I think about when I think Amiga, and conversely when I think Theme Park I also don't think "Amiga".

When I think any of the other games on your list, I do think "Amiga".

Your reasoning that games being ported doesn't stop them from being "Defining" is correct. Lemmings was ported to everything, but is "Defining" on the Amiga. Same goes for Another World.