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Ack
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ack Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:55 pm

Well, I beat Spear of Destiny and moved to the first of the mission packs, Return to Danger. You know what? You're right, they're not nearly as good. While the levels so far have been interesting in their design, the sprite colors and wall textures have been redone, so everything seems to be blue right now. While I don't mind some of the changes (Nazi loot is now war material, so I'm stealing munitions tech), it's a bit annoying to look at. Also, the HUD doesn't appear by default for some reason. I don't know if this is due to ECWolf or just how this game is.

There are some other problems, like how the game thinks it is still Spear of Destiny, so the music, names, game demo, etc., are all screwed up. I have read that the ending is exactly the same. The German voicework is different though, which I kinda like.

So far, the most interesting thing I have seen this game do is start a level with a series of rooms where a gunshot will alert all nearby guards, causing them to warm out of their posts. Shoot, and you end up swamped. It is a cool touch, though I don't know if it will continue. I've also noticed stuff like a level with locked doors and no key, so the design has been all over the place. We'll see how I feel after a few more levels.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ack Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:34 am

Ok, I've knocked out 10 levels of the Return to Danger mission pack along with one of the secret levels, so I am firmly halfway through. The level design elements I liked at the beginning have quickly faded away to poorly thought out choices just so the devs could make Nazi iconography into the map designs. Seriously, it's not important that the map looks like one of those German eagle emblems. It's more important to try and get coherent design, which is where RtD fails.

The issues? Mandatory secrets, first and foremost. You have to find secrets in some levels, or else you will never be able to progress. Keys and the level ending are sometimes hidden behind secret doors, so if you're not looking, you won't be advancing. To try and offset this, the devs put dead rats next to secrets, so there is a tell at least...usually.

The second is that the levels are incoherent and often completely unnecessary. I bet one level last night in less than a minute without encountering any enemies simply because I could just walk up to the ending. When ID developed a level, they made it progress in such a way that you had to see the whole thing. The first mission pack fails to do this, and massive portions can be skipped...or in some cases, 95% of entire levels.

Funny enough, I was right about the devs not changing or being able to change certain things, like level endings. When you kill a boss in RtD, you don't see their name; you get the corresponding name from whatever level you had been on in Spear of Destiny. I don't actually know what the bosses in RtD are called without looking it up. I suspect that the ending being identical to SoD will also hold true.

Also the mutants are now bats with miniguns attached. Because...I don't know. It just looks weird.

With all the problems, I'm going to have a tough time recommending the Wolf3D mission packs to folks...but I'm halfway through. Maybe this can redeem itself somehow. Or maybe the second mission pack will. I'll just have to find out.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ack Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:40 am

I'm now on level 18 in Return to Danger, so I'm close to wrapping this one up. Since levels 19 and 20 are the secret levels, that means I have only 18 and 21 to beat. Level design has not improved. While there have been a couple of minor points I can appreciate, such as false level endings and transparencies used for great effect to hide enemies in one level, most of this has been either rote or completely avoidable.

To top it off, FormGen has also taken to throwing hordes of enemies at me. Only they do it in such a way that makes the ID levels where it happened in Spear of Destiny appear much better designed. ID would often use a combination of doors and level geometry to hide the foes, forcing you to stay on your toes as you moved into an area. FormGen's approach? Open a door or round a corner, and there are a dozen guys in front of you. In later levels, it's usually bats, so you backpedal and mow them down, hoping to use a corner or doorframe to catch as many as you can before they annihilate you.

At this point, I've mainly been finding the exit and then playing enough of any given level to top off my ammo and health before advancing to the next. I'm looking forward to finishing this.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Xeogred Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:47 am

Plutonia 2 is easily the hardest megawad I've played this year and was pretty taxing. Weirdly enough the last stretch of levels weren't as hard as the late teens and early 20's, the style seemed really different but in a good way too. As it goes with big projects and multiple mappers I guess. Less slaughter maps and a bit more space to run around in. I've also decided I love the color of RED in texturing and maps, which makes up some of these later levels that looked really cool. Overall pretty damn good but there were a couple lame maps or switch hunts I didn't enjoy, so I'd give it like a B or something. Why I played it on UV when I don't think I've done Plutonia 1 on UV is beyond me haha, I'm pretty confident this was easily much harder even if I bumped it down to HMP.

The Icon of Sin fight in this one was really cool, I'm sure it took this player numerous runs to get a clean take like this:

https://youtu.be/OjBtm5xcfz0

60. Doom 2: Hellbound (PC) [12hr][Complex|HMP]
61. Doom 2: Sawdust (PC) [50min][UV]
65. Doom 2: Back to Saturn X EP1 (PC) [7hr][Complex|UV]
68. Doom 2: Back to Saturn X EP2 (PC) [7h30m][Complex|HMP]
69. Doom 2: Plutonia 2 (PC) [8h23m][UV]
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Mara Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:17 am

Has anyone here played either of the The Golden Souls megawads? The second one got released about two months ago and it's pretty solid fun. I'm just slightly stuck in one of the later castles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFiuRKPftoA
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Xeogred Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:02 pm

That looks... amazing.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Mara Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:54 pm

Oh, it really is. Of course, platforming in DOOM might feel a bit weird so get prepared for that.

The Golden Souls 1 https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=35135
The Golden Souls 2 https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=47574
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ack Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:10 am

That is both bizarre and amazing.

I keep venturing away from DOOM in this discussion, so fair warning, I am about to do it again. Has anyone tried Bstone, the source port of Blake Stone? I'm curious about what all it offers.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ziggy587 Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:10 pm

Just when you think there's nothing left to find in Doom...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irNoHfnLXRM
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Tanooki Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:21 pm

Wow on both
- Never knew there was a public source to Blake Stone and work had been done on it. I used to for some reason like that game back then, was an odd break from Doom.
- And I didn't know about that in Doom 2 that there was supposedly an untouchable secret, a bug but not, more of a real inconvenience that someone figures out like 25 plus years later to get without cheat codes.
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