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Ack
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ack Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:05 pm

Well, I at least made it through the first chunk of TNT yesterday. Gonna try to knock out a few more levels today too.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ack Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:55 am

Ok, I have made it to the first of the Hell set of levels, which officially starts on MAP21. TNT is brutal not because it is consistently difficult but because of the inconsistency. Going from a relatively straightforward map involving heavy amounts of infantry and imps into another with a heavy emphasis on Revenants as turrets and puzzle solving makes for a ride awakening every time I begin a new level.

Also, most levels are kinda dull, and some lack flow. There is a lot of backtracking here. I intend to beat TNT: Evilution, but I'm gonna be a crotchety old man about it.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ack Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:09 am

I now have two maps to go in TNT: Evilution, and I have reached that point where the mapmakers felt difficulty consists of throwing hordes of Revenants and a handful of Arch Viles at the player.

There are things I like about some of these maps, but there are some where it feels the developer simply wanted to make things "hard" but felt the best way to do that was simply to add more enemies. Maps have also become almost mazelike in their presentation, and while it's interesting seeing just how big some of the mapmakers felt like going, it's also extremely frustrating as I have to repeatedly stop and wonder where I'm supposed to go next. Flow is often non-existent.

Oh, and mandatory secrets are a thing. As are walk-through walls that aren't actually considered secrets by the game. Hell, the secret triggers are finicky half the time as is.

I am curious to see how it all comes together in the end. Will the final levels serve as a high point, or will the game resolve itself in a pile of mush? One way to find out...
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ziggy587 Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:20 am

Yeah, difficulty is a a hard thing to get right in game design. Can't be too hard, or hard for the wrong reasons, but it also can't be too easy. But that middle ground isn't the same for everyone. So that balance is incredibly hard to get right. And as you mentioned in your last post, the progression of difficulty matters too. To me, I think it's the thing that tends to stick out the most in amateur game design. That balance is incredibly hard to get right, especially level after level. It needs to FEEL like it was a challenge that was rewarding to get through, but without actually BEING that much of an actual challenge because most people don't like to grind.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ack Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:11 pm

Gunstar recently had been hyping up the Plutonia Experiment level Hunted, so I finally reached it yesterday.

Yeah, that was an awesome and ballsy level. It's different but a lot of fun, and there was a clear transition for me from "Oh shit, they're after me" to "Oh shit, I'm after them." Once I got to understanding how the doors worked in the maze and whittled down the number of Arch-Viles, I started hunting them.

The BFG makes a great reward for that level, and it was a fantastic way to use a nasty enemy, something that I've only seen a few maps do with Cyberdemons. In a challenging campaign that I am enjoying despite its ballbusting, so far Hunted has been the star.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ziggy587 Mon May 03, 2021 8:23 pm

So I've seen lots of videos of John Romero talking about different aspects of DOOM and the making of it, but I just came across a new video of Sandy Petersen talking about the making of DOOM. Definitely worth a watch if you're into "the making of" type stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaO4p7PNN4M
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by RCBH928 Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:32 am

I need help

I played Doom 1 and Doom II but then I learned Ultimate Doom has extra episodes and Final Doom too.
1) Running Gzdoom it says I need to install the wad files, on Steam there are 4 wads files. doom.wad, dwad, and another 2 in a folder called StreamingAssets: Doom.wad again and extras.wad . Which one is it?

2) Final Doom: has Plutonia.WAD and TNT.WAD , but no DOOM II . I thought its the whole package not just extra episodes.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Gunstar Green Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:52 am

doom.wad should be Ultimate Doom which includes Episode 4: Thy Flesh Consumed. The unofficial 5th episode, Sigil, by John Romero is available as a free download from his site: https://romero.com/

Doom II is doom2.wad which is a separate install on Steam. If you've already played Doom II there won't be any additional content.

The only extra "official" levels for Doom II, titled No Rest for the Living, were released with the BFG Edition ports of Doom 3 and were developed by Nerve Software. There are also The Master Levels which were a collection of curated fan levels that id released (these are pretty hit and miss, mapping has come a long way since then).

Final Doom is it's own standalone thing. It's two separate 32 level campaigns using Doom II's assets by different design teams who originated from the Doom modding and mapping community of the time. plutonia.wad is The Plutonia Experiment by Dario and Milo Casali. tnt.wad is TNT: Evilution by a collaboration of fans called TeamTNT.

To put it simply though, these are the four main IWADs that make up the four official campaigns of classic Doom: doom.wad (The Ultimate Doom), doom2.wad (Doom II: Hell on Earth), plutonia.wad (The Plutonia Experiment), and tnt.wad (TNT: Evilution).

If you want more there is an unending abundance of fan content you can find through Doomworld's /idgames archive.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by RCBH928 Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:27 am

Gunstar Green wrote:doom.wad should be Ultimate Doom which includes Episode 4: Thy Flesh Consumed. The unofficial 5th episode, Sigil, by John Romero is available as a free download from his site: https://romero.com/

Doom II is doom2.wad which is a separate install on Steam. If you've already played Doom II there won't be any additional content.

The only extra "official" levels for Doom II, titled No Rest for the Living, were released with the BFG Edition ports of Doom 3 and were developed by Nerve Software. There are also The Master Levels which were a collection of curated fan levels that id released (these are pretty hit and miss, mapping has come a long way since then).

Final Doom is it's own standalone thing. It's two separate 32 level campaigns using Doom II's assets by different design teams who originated from the Doom modding and mapping community of the time. plutonia.wad is The Plutonia Experiment by Dario and Milo Casali. tnt.wad is TNT: Evilution by a collaboration of fans called TeamTNT.

To put it simply though, these are the four main IWADs that make up the four official campaigns of classic Doom: doom.wad (The Ultimate Doom), doom2.wad (Doom II: Hell on Earth), plutonia.wad (The Plutonia Experiment), and tnt.wad (TNT: Evilution).

If you want more there is an unending abundance of fan content you can find through Doomworld's /idgames archive.


Thanks for the clear answer!
is No Rest for the Living available for purchase? I gave it a look on steam DOOM BFG edition but it didn't seem to mention No Rest for the Living unless I missed it.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Gunstar Green Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:42 am

NERVE.WAD which is No Rest for the Living is included with the version of Doom II that comes with the BFG edition even if it's not mentioned. It's a 9 level (8+secret) episode. You'll want to ignore the core game IWADs that come with BFG edition though because they're the most censored versions of Doom and Doom II.

It can also be downloaded as a free DLC add-on within the official Bethesda source port for Windows and consoles.

Those are the only two legal ways to play it that I know of.
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