Genre of the Month (JAN 2024 TR) - Plentiful Platformers

[Ziggy]

I've been playing a little bit of Mega Man X the past few days. The first X collection was on sale on PSN for $8.99, and I happened to have almost that much in my PSN wallet from something I don't remember. I've owned the first four MMX games for many years now, and have played a little bit of them here and there over the years, but it's only in recent years that they've become real favorites of mine. Usually I play them on the SNES and PS1, although I discovered that the PS2 collection is awesome and superior in some ways. This is my first time playing the new X collection though. There is a bit of input lag that is immediately noticeable. After playing for a few minutes, I mostly got use to it and made it most of the way through the first MMX. But I don't think this will ever be my go-to versions of the games.

Does anyone dig 3D platformers? I feel like there's never been a whole lot of love for them on this forum. I feel like the game selection can be pretty polarizing. It seems like 3D platformers are dominated by Mario games, then a few good games from Rare when they were awesome, then mostly mediocre games with some hidden gems. Or maybe hidden gems isn't the right phrase, maybe they're just games that have cult followings but never received the mainstream popularity that Nintendo and Rare games did.

Anyone dig cinematic platformers? I really like them, but I can never get into them. I really like Another World, and it's the only one that I ever bothered to "learn" and be able to beat. These games usually have trial and error, and a lot of times I can't figure out what the hell I'm suppose to be doing. So I shut them off LOL.

[opa]

I really enjoy cinematic platformers. I think the Oddworld games would be a good experience. I'm particularly fond of Abe's Exoddus for the PlayStation. There was a sequel to Another World on the Sega CD called Heart of the Alien. It's okay. Not as good as the first game.

Blackthorne is also a really good game. Basically Another World with a shotgun. The MS-DOS version was freeware for a while; also on SNES and GBA. The GBA version has a romhack available that restores the color to the original palette.

Flashback: The Quest for Identity is supposedly good but I've never really sat down to learn how to play it. There's also Heart of Darkness on PlayStation (another one on my to-play list).

[Raging Justice]

I've been playing a little bit of Mega Man X the past few days. The first X collection was on sale on PSN for $8.99, and I happened to have almost that much in my PSN wallet from something I don't remember. I've owned the first four MMX games for many years now, and have played a little bit of them here and there over the years, but it's only in recent years that they've become real favorites of mine. Usually I play them on the SNES and PS1, although I discovered that the PS2 collection is awesome and superior in some ways. This is my first time playing the new X collection though. There is a bit of input lag that is immediately noticeable. After playing for a few minutes, I mostly got use to it and made it most of the way through the first MMX. But I don't think this will ever be my go-to versions of the games.

Does anyone dig 3D platformers? I feel like there's never been a whole lot of love for them on this forum. I feel like the game selection can be pretty polarizing. It seems like 3D platformers are dominated by Mario games, then a few good games from Rare when they were awesome, then mostly mediocre games with some hidden gems. Or maybe hidden gems isn't the right phrase, maybe they're just games that have cult followings but never received the mainstream popularity that Nintendo and Rare games did.

Anyone dig cinematic platformers? I really like them, but I can never get into them. I really like Another World, and it's the only one that I ever bothered to "learn" and be able to beat. These games usually have trial and error, and a lot of times I can't figure out what the hell I'm suppose to be doing. So I shut them off LOL.

I feel like the input lag is maybe a Playstation thing. I didn't notice it on the Switch collection, but maybe it's just that I haven't played the SNES versions in a long time so I'm not noticing it. There's a belief that some Switch games have lag in docked mode though, and I usually play my games in handheld mode

The constant love fest for Mario games can be tiresome, but it's hard to deny the influence and impact of the franchise. It may actually be the most important platforming series in gaming and pop culture history. I think only the Sonic franchise comes close to that same status, but it's still far behind Mario. Here's some other great 3d platformers though:

The Sly Cooper tetralogy
The Ratchet and Clank games, though they are 1/2 third person shooter games as well
Astrobot: Rescue Mission and Astro's Playroom - Masterpieces, especially Rescue Mission
Spyro the Dragon and Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage! - The remasters are great too, but a lot of stuff was changed/censored from the original PS1 games. The third one sucks IMO with all that skateboarding crap.
Jak and Daxter - The only good one, the sequels suck. Daxter on PSP might be good but I never played it
Conker's Bad Fur Day - Great movie parodies and the game itself is a great parody of 3d hob and bop, collectathon games. Hard to find another game in the genre with the attitude and adult (though sometimes juvenile) humor of Conker's Bad Fur Day
Crash Bandicoot Warped - The Crash series is a bit overrated by today's standards, but were great for their time and Warped is the best one. Crash was the PS1 mascot at one time, though I'd argue Lara Croft was for a time as well.
Maximo: Ghosts to Glory/Maximo vs. Army of Zin - The Maximo games are better than the Ghouls n Ghosts series. The difficulty is still there, but it's way more manageable.
MediEvil - It's a bit of a hack n slash game with some puzzle solving, but there's a lot of platforming. The combat is a bit clunky, but it's funny Tim Burtonesque, Halloween vibe and British style humor is fun and the remaster on Playstation is pretty great
Pumpkin Jack - It's indie MediEvil basically
A Hat in Time - I never finished it, but what I played was charming
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time - POP seems to be making a comeback this year, though I believe the new game is a 2.5d, Metroid thing. The platforming in Sands of Time was amazing when it come out, and I think many games (especially from Ubisoft) have copied it.

EDIT: Forget New Super Lucky's Tale, a really good mix of both 2d and 3d platforming. There are VR games in this series too, but I don't know if they're any good.

[marurun]

I think Kirby and the Forgotten Lands has become the default entry point for younger gamers and gamers who don’t necessarily gel with 3D platformers. Also, the co-op mode is pretty inspired.

[Raging Justice]

I absolutely cannot put into words how much I utterly despise modern Donkey Kong Country games. DKC and DKC 2 on the SNES are some of my favorite platformers of all time. Recently, I tried the GBA versions on an emulator and I had a pretty good time. I even tried the 8-bit Gameboy port of DKC and it was alright.

I remember trying Donkey Kong Country Returns on the Wii a few years ago and didn't like it. I tried it again on the 3ds a few months ago, didn't like it. I tried Tropical Freeze today and after just a few stages in the first world of the game I found myself just annoyed and then infuriated with it. There is something about the way these newer ones are designed that absolutely sucks and I just can't stand them at all. They also have absolutely none of the charm of the SNES entries.

Maybe I should just go and try DKC 3 on the SNES, I never played that one. Or maybe just play Kaze and the Wild Masks again, which is a better game than both DKC Returns and DKC Tropical Freeze

[Limewater]

Does anyone dig 3D platformers? I feel like there's never been a whole lot of love for them on this forum. I feel like the game selection can be pretty polarizing. It seems like 3D platformers are dominated by Mario games, then a few good games from Rare when they were awesome, then mostly mediocre games with some hidden gems. Or maybe hidden gems isn't the right phrase, maybe they're just games that have cult followings but never received the mainstream popularity that Nintendo and Rare games did.

I'm pretty sure I expressed it before, but I have come to the conclusion that I actively dislike 3D platformers.

3D platformers that I recall having played:
Super Mario 64 (beaten, not 100%)
Super Mario Sunshine (beaten, not 100%)
Conker's Bad Fur Day (beaten, maybe 100%, I don't remember)
Glover (DNF)
Donkey Kong 64 (beaten, not 100%)
Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine (beaten, 100%)
Gex: Enter the Gecko (Own, but never played seriously)
Super Mario 3D World (A bit different from normal 3D platformers)

Of the above, I found myself frequently annoyed with a lot of them. I better enjoyed the games where the platforming was somewhat minimal. For example, Conker's Bad Fur Day is classified as a platformer, but I don't actually remember having to do a ton of platforming.

I keep trying them, which is rather foolish I guess, but I really believe that platforming in 2D is a far superior experience.

I'm not against 3D games in general. Breath of the Wild got the vast majority of my play time last year. But that game very rarely asked me to precisely place my character in a 3D space using only 2D visualization.

[Ziggy]

I really enjoy cinematic platformers. I think the Oddworld games would be a good experience. I'm particularly fond of Abe's Exoddus for the PlayStation. There was a sequel to Another World on the Sega CD called Heart of the Alien. It's okay. Not as good as the first game.

Blackthorne is also a really good game. Basically Another World with a shotgun. The MS-DOS version was freeware for a while; also on SNES and GBA. The GBA version has a romhack available that restores the color to the original palette.

Flashback: The Quest for Identity is supposedly good but I've never really sat down to learn how to play it. There's also Heart of Darkness on PlayStation (another one on my to-play list).

Ah, right. Oddworld. That one has long been on my list to play. It looks like such an awesome game. And I love PS1 games that are 2D, they're always so awesome looking.

I never played Heart of the Alien, but it contains the best home console port of Another World.

Blackthorne is another I tend to forget about, but need to try one of these days. Do you know, should I try the MS-DOS or SNES version?

Flashback looks really cool, and I've long wanted to play it, but I can never get into it. Every time I turn the game on, I play it for like 5-10 minutes and get frustrated that I can't figure out how to progress. So I end up shutting it off.

Nosferatu on SNES is one that I was kinda getting in to. I forget what made me stop playing it though.

And Prince of Persia is another one that I'm not sure why I haven't played by now.

I'm pretty sure I expressed it before, but I have come to the conclusion that I actively dislike 3D platformers.

I keep trying them, which is rather foolish I guess, but I really believe that platforming in 2D is a far superior experience.

I'm not against 3D games in general. Breath of the Wild got the vast majority of my play time last year. But that game very rarely asked me to precisely place my character in a 3D space using only 2D visualization.

I think 3D platformers are MUCH harder to get right compared to 2D. I think that's why there's so few of them in comparison. And of the 3D platformers that do exist, why so many of them are noteworthy games.

[opa]

RE Blackthorne: I like the SNES version, myself. Nothing wrong with DOS; just a preference. There's also a 32X version. I couldn't really get into it. The different graphics and sound effects that just didn't seem right.

[Raging Justice]

Does anyone dig 3D platformers? I feel like there's never been a whole lot of love for them on this forum. I feel like the game selection can be pretty polarizing. It seems like 3D platformers are dominated by Mario games, then a few good games from Rare when they were awesome, then mostly mediocre games with some hidden gems. Or maybe hidden gems isn't the right phrase, maybe they're just games that have cult followings but never received the mainstream popularity that Nintendo and Rare games did.

I'm pretty sure I expressed it before, but I have come to the conclusion that I actively dislike 3D platformers.

3D platformers that I recall having played:
Super Mario 64 (beaten, not 100%)
Super Mario Sunshine (beaten, not 100%)
Conker's Bad Fur Day (beaten, maybe 100%, I don't remember)
Glover (DNF)
Donkey Kong 64 (beaten, not 100%)
Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine (beaten, 100%)
Gex: Enter the Gecko (Own, but never played seriously)
Super Mario 3D World (A bit different from normal 3D platformers)

Of the above, I found myself frequently annoyed with a lot of them. I better enjoyed the games where the platforming was somewhat minimal. For example, Conker's Bad Fur Day is classified as a platformer, but I don't actually remember having to do a ton of platforming.

I keep trying them, which is rather foolish I guess, but I really believe that platforming in 2D is a far superior experience.

I'm not against 3D games in general. Breath of the Wild got the vast majority of my play time last year. But that game very rarely asked me to precisely place my character in a 3D space using only 2D visualization.

So I have some thoughts

I agree that platforming is better in 2d (especially when it comes to Sonic games). I would argue that 2d is vastly superior for almost ALL genres. 3d gaming has been refined significantly since the N64 and PS1 eras, but it still never feels quite as tight, precise, and accurate as a 2d game. You have less freedom of movement, but that also means less room for error. That's the trade off as I see it. 3d games give you bigger worlds to explore, but less precise gameplay. I love many 3d games and have largely adapted to them, but I still feel like the bulk of my favorite games over the years are 2d games and few things get me as excited today as the announcement of a new, 2d game. Even Prince of Persia just returned to its 2d roots with Lost Crown and people are raving about it.

HOWEVER

Looking at the list you posted, those are not the most user friendly examples of the genre. I always thought Mario 64 was a bit overrated and a lot of that was due to camera issues and how it affected platforming. Sunshine seems to be regarded by a lot of people as a bad Mario game, maybe even the only truly bad Mario game. I tried it recently and did not enjoy my experience. You got farther in that game than I did. Super Mario 3d Land and 3d World both have sub-optimal, 3d platforming. I've beaten both of them and they have their fun moments but there are sequences in both games where I found the platforming awkward and frustrating. This really becomes an issue when you get to those bonus worlds and they start cranking up the difficulty. You can't do that in a game where your 3d platforming is slip shod.

Much better examples of 3d platforming in my opinion that feel more refined

New Super Lucky's Tale

This game alternates between 2d and 3d platforming depending on what stage you are playing. The 3d levels are very well done

Astro Bot Rescue Mission
Astro's Playroom

^Seriously, the Astro games are the best platformers I've played in years. A masterclass in doing platforming right, though it may be a cheat for me to mention Rescue Mission since it's a VR game, but it uses the technology well. The only parts of that game that can be a bit frustrating are the optional challenges, but that's why they are optional. The main levels are a joy to play

The Sly Cooper series - Particularly the 3 sequels as the first might be considered a bit frustrating to play now. They mix in other gameplay elements, like mini-games and mostly notably stealth, but the platforming is generally rock solid and feels refined.

The Ratchet and Clank series - I never really found the platforming in those games to be frustrating. They frequently alternate between platforming, light puzzle solving, and third person shooter gameplay and the platforming is usually great. The R&C games have a certain pace they like to keep that is in line with action games, so I think they don't want things to get bogged down with overly complicated platforming so those parts usually aren't too frustrating

Prince of Persia: Sands of Time

This game refined 3d platforming to a point that many games would go on to copy it

[Raging Justice]

I was playing Mega Man 11 today. Man, it's missing something. I don't like the gear system, particularly the speed gear. the constant slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up, approach to gameplay is disorienting and frankly kind of annoying. The whole gear system feels like a stupid gimmick.

The music isn't doing anything for me.

Also, why are the stages so damn long? I said something in another thread about how annoying it is to play through arcade mode in some of the newer, retro style beat 'em ups like Streets of Rage 4 for example, and I made the same complaint. Arcade mode goes on FOREVER in some of these newer beat 'em ups. Wulverblade is another one that comes to mind. Man, what I love about a lot of classic games is that they don't overstay their welcome. Levels don't drag on forever, and arcade beat 'em ups and fighting games could be finished in like 30 minutes or less

I love retro style games but some developers don't really "get" retro games and it shows in how they design them

Anyway, back to Mega Man. I think Mega Man 8 was maybe the last great Mega Man game and it's more fun to play than Mega Man 11 is.