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SpaceBooger
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by SpaceBooger Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:00 pm

After reading this thread, I feel that going all Dark Side is the fastest way to play the game. There have been many quests that had me trudge both through lengthy dialog along with tons of terrain just to complete quests. If I would have killed them, I would be twice as far in 19 hours (currently in the middle of my third planet's quests).
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MrPopo
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by MrPopo Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:03 pm

Murder is the path to fun and profit and Force Lightning and Death Field. Tasty tasty Death Field.
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nullPointer
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by nullPointer Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:51 pm

I'm finally taking off from Dantooine, and likewise the game really takes off at this point. Everything up until this point has been pleasant enough and there haven't been any tedious grind-y sections, but likewise everything up until this point feels a bit like a prelude. Even that's not so bad, but it is quite lengthy and linear (depending on your strategy for side-quests). I think that these combined factors ultimately impede the replay value for the game a bit. I suppose the light side and dark side paths serve to alleviate this problem to some extent, but even then the storyline doesn't really take branching paths based on alignment. (Although the dark side stuff really does lead to some humorous narrative dissonance:

Carth: "What are you doing!? You can't just strike down an innocent civilian in cold blood!!"
You: <Attacks>
Carth: <Fills that biz-o full of blaster bolts like it was the OK Coral>

… Wow Carth I didn't know you had it in you :twisted:)

So … is there ever any reason not to dual wield in this game? I've often thought about maxing out the dueling feat and using a single light saber for a more "traditional" experience (and believe me I really considered grabbing the Kylo Ren lightsaber mod), but ultimately here I am running a dual wielder again. I really can't see any reason not to, save for maybe running a dark side force user (and even then it takes quite a while to build up those dark side force powers for them to be an acceptable substitute to lightsaber battling). I guess an alternate option would be serving in a light side supporting role for NPCs, but … yeah, that sucks. So dual wielding: any thoughts for or against?
Last edited by nullPointer on Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MrPopo
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by MrPopo Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:38 pm

Dual wielding (along with double bladed saber) gives you a general increase in damage. The reason you'd go single saber is for a caster character and picking up the Duelist feat, which I believe gives you extra defense when you're using a single lightsaber.
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nullPointer
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by nullPointer Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:26 pm

MrPopo wrote:Dual wielding (along with double bladed saber) gives you a general increase in damage. The reason you'd go single saber is for a caster character and picking up the Duelist feat, which I believe gives you extra defense when you're using a single lightsaber

Yes exactly. I also believe that the dual wielding feat pings you with a penalty to hit until you build it to master level (at which point I think there's only a minor penalty to hit with your "off-hand"). I kind of wish the game was a bit more balanced in this regard. As I mentioned, unless you're going for primarily a force using character, there's really no reason not to dual wield, even to the point that it becomes the "correct" way to play the game. Don't get me wrong, deal wielding is badass, it just seems slightly incongruent with the rest of the Star Wars universe as we know it. If dual wielding is the "right way to do it" why isn't the Star Wars universe at large filled with dual wielders (Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Ben Kenobi, Mace Windu, Kylo Ren, etc.)? I just wish that the dual wielding feat had been presented as a more balanced option rather than the de facto choice for tank characters.
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MrPopo
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by MrPopo Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:38 pm

Well, since KOTOR is built off of d20 (aka the open source version of D&D 3rd) that's where the dual wielding being good is. The real problem is that the system was created to try and balance sword and board with two hander and dual wielding. The former gives you the best defense and worst damage, and the latter two are going for fewer large hits vs. more small hits. The thing is, Star Wars lacks both shields and two handed weapons (dual bladed saber is effectively dual wielding just like the dual bladed weapons of D&D 3rd). So the whole balance is off, and while the duelist perk was added to try and buff single saber if you're going for damage then dual wielding is the way to go.

Lore-wise, since Jedi aren't supposed to be aggressive attackers that's the reason they stick to single saber. In general in the EU it's been shown that the best saber duelists use double bladed or dual sabers.
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by nullPointer Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:58 pm

MrPopo wrote:Lore-wise, since Jedi aren't supposed to be aggressive attackers that's the reason they stick to single saber. In general in the EU it's been shown that the best saber duelists use double bladed or dual sabers.

You know, this is a really interesting point. I'm certainly no expert on the EU but for the most part the double bladed and dual saber users that I'm aware of are dark side characters (pretty much Darth Maul and Asajj Ventress respectively). This certainly falls into line with your "aggressive attacker" observation. It might have been interesting if the dual wielder feat carried with it a light side penalty/dark side buff mechanic. Definitely a case of wondering "what could have been", but it might have served as a balancing factor for this particular feat.
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Markies
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by Markies Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:43 pm

I'm about to leave the Endar Spire and I'm a brunette female soldier.

I'm really liking it so far. The combat is really good and this is the first time that I have ever experienced any dialogue trees from Bioware, so I'm very excited for that. I got into it pretty nicely and I could see how many things were going. I think I'm going to enjoy this one!

I just hope my XBOX can handle it. The game took a while to start up and it chugs a bit during certain moments. If it gets worst, I'll just pick up a new copy as the game is extremely cheap.

I feel bad that it almost took me half the month to start it, but I've been busy with other games. Also, I don't know if I'll be able to put into a total effort as I just got some crummy work news today. :(
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nullPointer
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by nullPointer Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:06 pm

Markies wrote:I feel bad that it almost took me half the month to start it, but I've been busy with other games. Also, I don't know if I'll be able to put into a total effort as I just got some crummy work news today. :(

Don't feel bad, it's awesome that you're joining the fray in any capacity! Spacebooger makes an excellent point in that going dark side can potentially trim a lot of time off the game. ... Of course you have to have the fortitude to fully embrace some cold blooded digital killin' but hey, you ain't bad you're just drawn that way, right? :wink:

Sample dark side dialogue:
NPC: I have an unjust bounty on my head, can you help me!?
Dark side player: I'll help you remove your head from your torso, take the credits from your lifeless body, and claim the bounty for myself you sonuvabitch.
NPC: Uh ... what?
Dark side player: <hack>

And there's one less side quest you have to worry about. Ain't nothin' but a party y'all. (In truth I like playing light side better, just because I think the game flows better that way, and in truth the above sort of scenario makes me feel yucky. Even if it is just pretend pixels, I don't typically enjoy telling that sort of narrative. ... What can I say; I'm a pansy. I like rainbows. :mrgreen: )

All that aside, I hope your crummy news isn't too terribly crummy!
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Re: Together Retro: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

by fastbilly1 Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:39 am

Tried to get it working with touchscreen controls on win 8.1 last night, no luck. Grabbed the free version on android, built a strength 18 fighter, ran into battle blindly. Many robot looking men have died to my long sword in my journey to get out of the tutorial area.
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