NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii
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racketboy
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by racketboy Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:28 pm

Ack wrote:I'll be honest, I don't consider some of those games that relevant to today, mostly in the honorable mentions category. For instance, I really didn't care for Wave Race 64, and Star Wars Episode 1 Racer just came off as dull to me.

Also, I do wish Mario Kart 64 had made the cut, namely for a feature you didn't mention: Battle Mode. I used to go to all-night parties where all we played were Mario Kart 64's Battle Mode. Some of the most fun I've ever had at parties, to be honest. It was a feature that I don't think ever got enough attention, and to this day I still say Mario Kart 64 was one of the two best in the series, if not the best(I can't in good faith say that something was better than the original...I love them both).

And while I'm saddened by the total lack of any fighting games at all on the list, I realize it's because the fighting games on the N64 really weren't that great. Mortal Kombat Trilogy, Killer Instinct Gold, Clayfighter 63 1/3, Mace: The Dark Age...yeah...sure, they're fun, but I wouldn't really consider them groundbreaking, or really even that memorable.


Well you guys talked me into Mario Kart 64 -- I "upgraded" them -- I even added your quote, Ack
I'm such a pushover ;)
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by racketboy Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:30 pm

PharmaceuticalCowboy wrote:I would vote to move Paper Mario up to the regular list and add Star Wars: Rogue Squadron to the honorable mentions, as the game shows off the hardware capabilities of the system in a way that most games do not. Oh, and I heard somewhere that the N64 version of SW: Ep.1 Racer was better than the Dreamcast one, but I've only played the 64 one.



Is it just me or do both the Gamecube and N64 Paper Marios seem very much alike? I've played the Gamecube one more, and not a whole lot of the original, but that was just the impression I got.

BTW, I've also read the the N64 Racer was slimmed down a bit for the hardware...
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by nickfil Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:42 pm

racketboy wrote:Is it just me or do both the Gamecube and N64 Paper Marios seem very much alike? I've played the Gamecube one more, and not a whole lot of the original, but that was just the impression I got.



couldn't agree more. I don't think paper mario even got interesting until the new one.

mario and luigi's superstar saga/partners in time on the other hand..... great games.
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by Ack Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:45 pm

racketboy wrote:
Ack wrote:I'll be honest, I don't consider some of those games that relevant to today, mostly in the honorable mentions category. For instance, I really didn't care for Wave Race 64, and Star Wars Episode 1 Racer just came off as dull to me.

Also, I do wish Mario Kart 64 had made the cut, namely for a feature you didn't mention: Battle Mode. I used to go to all-night parties where all we played were Mario Kart 64's Battle Mode. Some of the most fun I've ever had at parties, to be honest. It was a feature that I don't think ever got enough attention, and to this day I still say Mario Kart 64 was one of the two best in the series, if not the best(I can't in good faith say that something was better than the original...I love them both).

And while I'm saddened by the total lack of any fighting games at all on the list, I realize it's because the fighting games on the N64 really weren't that great. Mortal Kombat Trilogy, Killer Instinct Gold, Clayfighter 63 1/3, Mace: The Dark Age...yeah...sure, they're fun, but I wouldn't really consider them groundbreaking, or really even that memorable.


Well you guys talked me into Mario Kart 64 -- I "upgraded" them -- I even added your quote, Ack
I'm such a pushover ;)


I do have one request about said quote: Please fix my grammar. I should have said "I used to go to all-night parties where all we played was Mario Kart 64's Battle Mode."
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by racketboy Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:10 pm

I'll try to fix that when I can access the WP admin section again -- I can't access it from work.

I'd like to do a recap and take in all the comments I've gotten from Digg, Reddit and the like and see if any of them actually have merit and maybe do some voting on what adjustments should be made to the list.

I'd like to do something similar with some of my older ones so that they are the best sources of information they can be :)
It can be hard to do a top-notch job rounding everything up when you haven't played absolutely everything extensively!
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by andymol21 Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:05 pm

I agree with Racketboy, it is basically all mine and his opinions, and the entire internet's head is better than 2 (in theory). I'm genuinely surprised by how many people have picked up on this article, didn't think I'd be opening such a can of worms by leaving out Goldeneye/Perfect Dark. But I stick by my judgment! They aren't as impressive now as they were when they were released, I just wish I was better at writing so I could explain my thoughts more eloquently! So that I could "pwn al da h8rs"
--=We Do What We Must Because We Can=--

FS/FT Thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24755&p=309811#p309811
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by Ack Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:14 pm

Most of the reason you guys are catching shit is because people are picking their favorites from the time. Sure, almost everybody liked 007 when it came out, but have any of us gone back and played it lately? I hear it hasn't aged well, and I know graphically it hasn't because I remember what it looked like. I know there's a fan base for the Southpaw control style that GoldenEye championed, but I believe many of us would have a hard time returning to it after the way controls have gone since then. Graphics also play a major part in this discussion, as the harder it is to look at something, the harder it is to play it. At this point, we've grown accustomed to excellent graphics, in some cases nearly photo-realistic graphics, and going back to a generation where 3D is just coming out is hard because of what we're used to. Some games I absolutely loved in the past are almost unplayable for me now. Unfortunately, I think GoldenEye falls into this category. At the time, it was cutting edge. Now, I don't think it looks good at all.

Graphics should still take backseat to gameplay, of course, and GoldenEye was always a very solid title(more so than Perfect Dark, in my opinion). But I wonder how good the gameplay really is. Return to it and compare styles. Does the AI actually improve at different difficulties, or do the enemies just do more damage and soak more hits? Was level design as excellent as we remember? How does the game stack up to modern titles? These are the questions asked in this piece.

I believe that GoldenEye was a bit over hyped, and for one reason: it was THE game to have. Look, I know I'm gonna catch flak over my opinion, but I spent just as much time playing this title as everyone else did, and I agree that this game did raise the bar for the console FPS. Was it a good game when released? Yes, I think so. Does it deserve all the praise it's gotten over the years? No, I don't think so. If you listen to the crowds of fans, this game is pure dynamite, cures cancer, and will bring about world peace. Of course, when was the last time most of these fans played the game? I think our memories are rosy from nostalgia, and I think there was one other major problem: what else was there? One of the biggest complaints about the N64 was that the titles sucked. I believe GoldenEye is so well loved because most of us didn't play anything else, so we begin to think that this one game was the greatest thing ever. Certain features were very influential, like the destructible environments and the ability to kill enemies by shooting them in the head, but consider what else was coming out at the time.

On the N64, we had Doom64, Turok, Hexen, Duke Nukem 64, and Turok 2 all coming out between 1997-1998. On PC, we were getting Quake, Duke Nukem 3D, Rainbow Six, and Half-Life. Descent had come out in 1995. Heck, Descent 2 had come out. Out of all of these, I'd say Half-Life was the most influential, and still playable(though I have some friends that still play Rainbow Six or Descent). Turok 2 I also played a ton of, enjoying multiplayer quite a bit. The ability to blow enemies' limbs off was amazing, and the world was so complex, I had to go back and forth between levels to get a full experience, just like Hexen. Heck, I spent hours in Hexen's multiplayer, bashing the crap out of friends and family as the Warrior. There were some great FPSs on the console, I thought, not just GoldenEye.

As for going back now, titles have become so innovative that I don't think I could. I've tried playing Turok 2 again, and the controls kill it for me. Half Life, on the other hand, I can return to again and again. GoldenEye? I don't know, but I doubt it. Of course, if I get my hands on a N64 any time soon, I will. I've got it sitting at home right now, between my copy of Ocarina of Time and Turok 2. But will it live up to what I believed it was? Probably not.
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by racketboy Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:07 pm

Ack wrote:Most of the reason you guys are catching shit is because people are picking their favorites from the time. Sure, almost everybody liked 007 when it came out, but have any of us gone back and played it lately? I hear it hasn't aged well, and I know graphically it hasn't because I remember what it looked like. I know there's a fan base for the Southpaw control style that GoldenEye championed, but I believe many of us would have a hard time returning to it after the way controls have gone since then. Graphics also play a major part in this discussion, as the harder it is to look at something, the harder it is to play it. At this point, we've grown accustomed to excellent graphics, in some cases nearly photo-realistic graphics, and going back to a generation where 3D is just coming out is hard because of what we're used to. Some games I absolutely loved in the past are almost unplayable for me now. Unfortunately, I think GoldenEye falls into this category. At the time, it was cutting edge. Now, I don't think it looks good at all.

Graphics should still take backseat to gameplay, of course, and GoldenEye was always a very solid title(more so than Perfect Dark, in my opinion). But I wonder how good the gameplay really is. Return to it and compare styles. Does the AI actually improve at different difficulties, or do the enemies just do more damage and soak more hits? Was level design as excellent as we remember? How does the game stack up to modern titles? These are the questions asked in this piece.

I believe that GoldenEye was a bit over hyped, and for one reason: it was THE game to have. Look, I know I'm gonna catch flak over my opinion, but I spent just as much time playing this title as everyone else did, and I agree that this game did raise the bar for the console FPS. Was it a good game when released? Yes, I think so. Does it deserve all the praise it's gotten over the years? No, I don't think so. If you listen to the crowds of fans, this game is pure dynamite, cures cancer, and will bring about world peace. Of course, when was the last time most of these fans played the game? I think our memories are rosy from nostalgia, and I think there was one other major problem: what else was there? One of the biggest complaints about the N64 was that the titles sucked. I believe GoldenEye is so well loved because most of us didn't play anything else, so we begin to think that this one game was the greatest thing ever. Certain features were very influential, like the destructible environments and the ability to kill enemies by shooting them in the head, but consider what else was coming out at the time.

On the N64, we had Doom64, Turok, Hexen, Duke Nukem 64, and Turok 2 all coming out between 1997-1998. On PC, we were getting Quake, Duke Nukem 3D, Rainbow Six, and Half-Life. Descent had come out in 1995. Heck, Descent 2 had come out. Out of all of these, I'd say Half-Life was the most influential, and still playable(though I have some friends that still play Rainbow Six or Descent). Turok 2 I also played a ton of, enjoying multiplayer quite a bit. The ability to blow enemies' limbs off was amazing, and the world was so complex, I had to go back and forth between levels to get a full experience, just like Hexen. Heck, I spent hours in Hexen's multiplayer, bashing the crap out of friends and family as the Warrior. There were some great FPSs on the console, I thought, not just GoldenEye.

As for going back now, titles have become so innovative that I don't think I could. I've tried playing Turok 2 again, and the controls kill it for me. Half Life, on the other hand, I can return to again and again. GoldenEye? I don't know, but I doubt it. Of course, if I get my hands on a N64 any time soon, I will. I've got it sitting at home right now, between my copy of Ocarina of Time and Turok 2. But will it live up to what I believed it was? Probably not.


Oh yeah, I realize that. I take the Goldeneye comments with a grain of salt. If they don't give some good explanations that start to make sense to me, I just disregard them.
In fact, I just delete the comments that are just "Where's Goldeneye?" or the like. I've been through this game many a time.
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by Ack Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:35 am

Worth it for this comment:

#
At 6/9/2008 5:34 PM, Ian said…

I’m actually surprised you mentioned Body Harvest in this article! I was a tester on the game back in the day and really enjoyed working on the project. It always seemed that the title would get lost in all the other better looking bigger budgeted titles.

Sure the graphic were very dated, but also take into consideration that the game was supposed to be a launch title and was dropped my many publishers over the years until Midway picked it up.

I still enjoy it to this day!
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by racketboy Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:47 am

Ack wrote:Worth it for this comment:

#
At 6/9/2008 5:34 PM, Ian said…

I’m actually surprised you mentioned Body Harvest in this article! I was a tester on the game back in the day and really enjoyed working on the project. It always seemed that the title would get lost in all the other better looking bigger budgeted titles.

Sure the graphic were very dated, but also take into consideration that the game was supposed to be a launch title and was dropped my many publishers over the years until Midway picked it up.

I still enjoy it to this day!


Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool :)
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