Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
I know we have some electronics hobbyists (and perhaps experts, too?) in here. Is there a conductive adhesive or epoxy product which can be used instead of solder for those us wary of working with a hot soldering iron? I'm also curious how safe or effective those cordless "cold heat"-style soldering irons are. Thoughts?
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Re: Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
There are conductive glues and epoxies available, but they are not a replacement for soldering. They're OK for the right application. But there's plenty of things you simply could not do with a glue or epoxy that you could do with a soldering iron. Also, they're not cheap. So even if you could use a glue or epoxy as a full on replacement for a soldering iron, it would be expensive.
Those cold heat irons are garbage. Someone gifted me one once, and I found it to be unusable. I use to keep it in my gig bag, when I use to gig or travel for practice, thinking it would work in a pinch.
Why exactly are you wary of working with a soldering iron? They're safer than, say, a clothes iron. What kind of things are you looking to do?
Those cold heat irons are garbage. Someone gifted me one once, and I found it to be unusable. I use to keep it in my gig bag, when I use to gig or travel for practice, thinking it would work in a pinch.
Why exactly are you wary of working with a soldering iron? They're safer than, say, a clothes iron. What kind of things are you looking to do?
Re: Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
I tried some "wire glue" stuff before. It must've kicked off or the conductive part settled to the bottom. It was ineffective - not conductive and made a mess. I saw a video of Dave Jones trying out a "conductive pen" children's electronics kit, and that thing worked. There was still some impedance tho, nothing like if he'd soldered wires. Because of that video, I purchased a couple of MG Chemicals brand conductive pens - Silver and Carbon for things that I can't solder - heating elements on rear windows, conductive traces inside clear-plastic ribbon cables, etc. I haven't used either of them yet, but reviews on Amazon were encouraging enough that I keep them on-hand.
I had one of those battery powered cold-soldering things. It never really worked for me. I've heard at least one person say that they were handy and that they worked well enough to be used often. Maybe I just didn't follow the instructions well or something.
A good soldering iron isn't very difficult to use as far as tools go imo. I've done a lot more damage with a small dremmel trying to do fine work with a small rotary file. A small slip-up while trying to solder something shouldn't cause any serious damage. I've yet to see anyone get a blister from one and my friend is kinda clumsy tho determined to do his own mods.
I had one of those battery powered cold-soldering things. It never really worked for me. I've heard at least one person say that they were handy and that they worked well enough to be used often. Maybe I just didn't follow the instructions well or something.
A good soldering iron isn't very difficult to use as far as tools go imo. I've done a lot more damage with a small dremmel trying to do fine work with a small rotary file. A small slip-up while trying to solder something shouldn't cause any serious damage. I've yet to see anyone get a blister from one and my friend is kinda clumsy tho determined to do his own mods.
Re: Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
I can think of two other drawbacks to using glue or epoxy. One, they are very messy and for that reason annoying to use. And two, it will be very hard or impossible to undo any connections whereas anything soldered can always be desoldered.
Re: Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
I'm just not comfortable with the hot soldering iron and the solder fumes. I feel like I just can't solder.
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Re: Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
Have you ever tried though? Or are you just assuming you'd be bad at it? Soldering is actually pretty easy. It's just like anything else though, you have to practice a little before you get the hang of it. If you are interested in practicing, I can help you pick some good projects to start with. It can be very gratifying.
As for the iron being hot, are you afraid of burning yourself with it or is it something else? Because if you can use a marker without getting ink on your skin then you can use a soldering iron without burning yourself. Using a clothes iron or cooking on a stove top is way more dangerous than a soldering iron.
If you have used a cheap iron before, don't let that discourage you. Cheap irons are usually what a beginner will get, and a lot of cheap irons really aren't well designed. First off, the really cheap ones are so poorly designed that they can over heat and even the hand grip area can get warm or hot even. Back when I use to use Radio Shack irons, having the handle get hot was my least favorite thing about them. I wouldn't blame you for being discourage if this is your only experience with a soldering iron. A more well made soldering iron should be comfortable to hold, and you shouldn't feel the heat from the iron tip at all. Cheap irons will come with a flimsy little stand, and the heavy power cord will make it easy to flip around. Again, don't be discouraged by cheap irons that are poorly designed. Solder stations have a wire going from the wand to the base unit, which is not as heavy or stiff as the power cord. So when you put the wand in the holder it's very secure. Also, a solder station will usually have a much better stand than the $15 iron. Solder stations don't have to be expensive, there's very affordable entry level ones these days. I'd be happy to give recommendations.
As for the fumes, yeah, you don't want to breath it in. I don't know if it's any more or less dangerous to inhale than any other fumes you would typically encounter. Hairspray, cleaning products, et cetera. It is known to the state of California to cause cancer, but so is EVERYTHING. The fumes are just the flux burning away, at least it isn't lead. But if you had a lead concern you could always just use lead-free solder. When I was a teen, I didn't care about the fumes and did nothing to prevent them from watering my eyes up. Now that I'm older, I'm a little more health conscious. Currently I just use a little desk fan on low speed to blow across my work area and that sweeps the fumes away. I'm in a large enough room so that's fine for me. I will eventually build or get a proper fume extractor at some point. You can get them for cheap these days. Or really, you just need a charcoal filter and a fan so they're cheap and easy to make. The filters can be cheap, and can be made out of a spare PC fan and a spare power adapter if you have them lying around. Maybe use a wire coat hanger for a stand. If you wanted to spend a little more you could get a dryer vent and pipe it out a nearby window, but at that cost you might want to just buy a cheap fume extractor from Amazon.
As for the iron being hot, are you afraid of burning yourself with it or is it something else? Because if you can use a marker without getting ink on your skin then you can use a soldering iron without burning yourself. Using a clothes iron or cooking on a stove top is way more dangerous than a soldering iron.
If you have used a cheap iron before, don't let that discourage you. Cheap irons are usually what a beginner will get, and a lot of cheap irons really aren't well designed. First off, the really cheap ones are so poorly designed that they can over heat and even the hand grip area can get warm or hot even. Back when I use to use Radio Shack irons, having the handle get hot was my least favorite thing about them. I wouldn't blame you for being discourage if this is your only experience with a soldering iron. A more well made soldering iron should be comfortable to hold, and you shouldn't feel the heat from the iron tip at all. Cheap irons will come with a flimsy little stand, and the heavy power cord will make it easy to flip around. Again, don't be discouraged by cheap irons that are poorly designed. Solder stations have a wire going from the wand to the base unit, which is not as heavy or stiff as the power cord. So when you put the wand in the holder it's very secure. Also, a solder station will usually have a much better stand than the $15 iron. Solder stations don't have to be expensive, there's very affordable entry level ones these days. I'd be happy to give recommendations.
As for the fumes, yeah, you don't want to breath it in. I don't know if it's any more or less dangerous to inhale than any other fumes you would typically encounter. Hairspray, cleaning products, et cetera. It is known to the state of California to cause cancer, but so is EVERYTHING. The fumes are just the flux burning away, at least it isn't lead. But if you had a lead concern you could always just use lead-free solder. When I was a teen, I didn't care about the fumes and did nothing to prevent them from watering my eyes up. Now that I'm older, I'm a little more health conscious. Currently I just use a little desk fan on low speed to blow across my work area and that sweeps the fumes away. I'm in a large enough room so that's fine for me. I will eventually build or get a proper fume extractor at some point. You can get them for cheap these days. Or really, you just need a charcoal filter and a fan so they're cheap and easy to make. The filters can be cheap, and can be made out of a spare PC fan and a spare power adapter if you have them lying around. Maybe use a wire coat hanger for a stand. If you wanted to spend a little more you could get a dryer vent and pipe it out a nearby window, but at that cost you might want to just buy a cheap fume extractor from Amazon.
Re: Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
The cost of the equipment is also daunting. I have lead-free solder, a $15 Radio Shack 15-watt iron, and some practice electronic bits and bobs, but the only time I tried soldering it was actually simple wires and I felt like it was too fiddly and I didn't have all the equipment I needed. But I also don't want to invest a ton in something I may just not have steady enough hands to do useful work with. I think I tried to attach a battery holder to an old NES cart once as well and ended up having to chuck the results. It was a hot mess. I don't have a wick or flux or a little station with a magnifying glass and grabby clips and arms.
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Re: Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
I hear ya. But I started out with a $15 Radio Shack iron as well. I also use to be a smoker, and my hands were FAR from steady. You can't expect your first time to be a complete success, it's a learning experience.
Let me tell you about my first time soldering. I had a cheap iron and a little bit of solder that I got from a friend. I didn't know much about anything, but I knew there were different "types" of solder. So when I ran out of the solder I had, I went to my local hardware store and asked for solder for electronics. Another friend had a vintage 70's P-Bass (worth some money) that he wanted new pots installed in, and I told him I could do it for him. Well, the "plumbing" solder that I got from the hardware store didn't have a rosin core and the solder job was a mess. His bass was cutting in and out and he thought it might be the amp, and since the amp was under warranty he took it in for service LOL. Turned out that, yes, it was the bass because of my horrible soldering job. But I stuck with it, and learned what I did wrong. Fast forward a bit and I was working as a repair tech in a guitar store for a while. I did tons of soldering there.
It definitely is a pain in the ass when you're first starting out, with any hobby, being that you need a ton of tools and supplies that you don't yet have. But with any new hobby, just get the stuff as you need it. You don't need a wick (desolder braid) unless you're desoldering. Depending on what you're doing you don't always need flux, especially because the solder you are using should have a flux (rosin) core. And you really don't need that little "helping hands" thing with the magnify glass. I got one of those from Radio Shack when I was first starting out and found that the magnifying glass was basically worthless. You don't need it. The helping hands do come in handy, but they're not essential. I understand the hesitation to invest money into something that may end up being a waste, but these days there's plenty of great tools and supplies that wont break the bank. But also know that there's cheap price tags and then there's cheap as in inferior. It's all about having the right tool for the job. Would you write off NASCAR because you tried it with a Smart car?
Note that lead-free solder is harder to use, especially for a beginner. It's harder to work with, and requires higher temperatures. The 15w Radio Shack iron might not be up to the task, and that could potentially be why you were having such a hard time. I highly recommend using a lead/tin solder at LEAST until you get your technique down. And does your solder have a rosin core? That was my mistake in my above story. Also, the diameter of the solder matters. A thicker solder will need a hotter iron with a bigger tip. A thinner gauge solder will be easier to use for a beginner.
The 15w Radio Shack iron isn't all bad, but it's definitely not for everything. I did a lot of work with mine, but it's not powerful enough for larger joints. The battery terminals on a NES cart, for example. The negative side is ground, and there will always be a large ground plane on the PCB. That large ground plane sinks the heat from the iron. So you really need an iron that's hot enough and also powerful enough not to loose heat. The 15w Radio Shack iron isn't up for this, for sure. This is definitely the #1 reason you were having trouble with the NES cart.
The Weller 40w solder station is perfect for beginners, and it LOADS better than a garbage $15 iron. It's not perfect. One thing is it doesn't have a temperature display so you'll really just be guessing and will have to just do some trial and error to find the right settings for specific tasks. But otherwise you shouldn't outgrow it anytime soon. The "ST" tips come in a variety of styles, but the ST3 tip that comes with it will be perfect for most things.
https://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40 ... B000AS28UC
Honestly, that Weller station and a spool of 60/40 lead/tin rosin core solder and you're good to go! I'd recommend watching as many "how to solder" videos on YouTube as you can. There's a lot of crappy ones, but there's a lot of really good ones. Here's two that I like, but there's definitely more.
Basic overview of soldering, and does a good job getting the principles across in a short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpkkfK937mU
Dives more into various techniques for through hole and surface mount soldering, but is also a fairly short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxMV6wGS3NY
Let me tell you about my first time soldering. I had a cheap iron and a little bit of solder that I got from a friend. I didn't know much about anything, but I knew there were different "types" of solder. So when I ran out of the solder I had, I went to my local hardware store and asked for solder for electronics. Another friend had a vintage 70's P-Bass (worth some money) that he wanted new pots installed in, and I told him I could do it for him. Well, the "plumbing" solder that I got from the hardware store didn't have a rosin core and the solder job was a mess. His bass was cutting in and out and he thought it might be the amp, and since the amp was under warranty he took it in for service LOL. Turned out that, yes, it was the bass because of my horrible soldering job. But I stuck with it, and learned what I did wrong. Fast forward a bit and I was working as a repair tech in a guitar store for a while. I did tons of soldering there.
It definitely is a pain in the ass when you're first starting out, with any hobby, being that you need a ton of tools and supplies that you don't yet have. But with any new hobby, just get the stuff as you need it. You don't need a wick (desolder braid) unless you're desoldering. Depending on what you're doing you don't always need flux, especially because the solder you are using should have a flux (rosin) core. And you really don't need that little "helping hands" thing with the magnify glass. I got one of those from Radio Shack when I was first starting out and found that the magnifying glass was basically worthless. You don't need it. The helping hands do come in handy, but they're not essential. I understand the hesitation to invest money into something that may end up being a waste, but these days there's plenty of great tools and supplies that wont break the bank. But also know that there's cheap price tags and then there's cheap as in inferior. It's all about having the right tool for the job. Would you write off NASCAR because you tried it with a Smart car?
Note that lead-free solder is harder to use, especially for a beginner. It's harder to work with, and requires higher temperatures. The 15w Radio Shack iron might not be up to the task, and that could potentially be why you were having such a hard time. I highly recommend using a lead/tin solder at LEAST until you get your technique down. And does your solder have a rosin core? That was my mistake in my above story. Also, the diameter of the solder matters. A thicker solder will need a hotter iron with a bigger tip. A thinner gauge solder will be easier to use for a beginner.
The 15w Radio Shack iron isn't all bad, but it's definitely not for everything. I did a lot of work with mine, but it's not powerful enough for larger joints. The battery terminals on a NES cart, for example. The negative side is ground, and there will always be a large ground plane on the PCB. That large ground plane sinks the heat from the iron. So you really need an iron that's hot enough and also powerful enough not to loose heat. The 15w Radio Shack iron isn't up for this, for sure. This is definitely the #1 reason you were having trouble with the NES cart.
The Weller 40w solder station is perfect for beginners, and it LOADS better than a garbage $15 iron. It's not perfect. One thing is it doesn't have a temperature display so you'll really just be guessing and will have to just do some trial and error to find the right settings for specific tasks. But otherwise you shouldn't outgrow it anytime soon. The "ST" tips come in a variety of styles, but the ST3 tip that comes with it will be perfect for most things.
https://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40 ... B000AS28UC
Honestly, that Weller station and a spool of 60/40 lead/tin rosin core solder and you're good to go! I'd recommend watching as many "how to solder" videos on YouTube as you can. There's a lot of crappy ones, but there's a lot of really good ones. Here's two that I like, but there's definitely more.
Basic overview of soldering, and does a good job getting the principles across in a short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpkkfK937mU
Dives more into various techniques for through hole and surface mount soldering, but is also a fairly short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxMV6wGS3NY
Re: Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
The lead-free solder was my problem. I had to heat the components or pcb too much for the silver solder I had (and didn't really know what I was doing having no videos to explain at the time). I was lifting traces and destroying hardware. I followed a couple of EEVBlog's tutorials and found out that tin-lead multi-rosin-core is the only solder anyone doing electronics as a hobby should ever use. Just like Dave said, a 1/4kg roll of .45mm multicore will last me forever - his was from the 70's and he's an electronics engineer. That, and a rosin-flux pen would've saved me so many failed projects no matter which iron I used. PM me and I'd be happy to mail a *long* pile of it for free - enough for at least 3 full console recappings or whatever and it'll not even phase my forever-roll - I'll throw in a well-used but still working rosin flux pen, a roll of solder wick and one of the old-fashioned solder sucker spring plunger if you take me up on the offer. With those things, even your $15 soldering iron will be successful (I used one for years - it was okay). If you decide to, an iron upgrade can make things easier.
I know it's recommended to avoid lead. I've worked in lead smelters and that requires regular blood tests to determine if you've been exposed. The amount of lead you might conceivably be exposed to while doing a few projects is so negligible as to be untraceable and would not likely have any effect on your health.. You get more from smoking a cigarette (proven) by co-workers who smoke and base-reading levels from me before and after quitting cigarettes. The lead isn't being boiled and vaporised - your iron can't do that. It's only being slightly melted and then solidified again. Mostly the fumes you're exposed to are from the rosin - it's actually derived from pine trees. Not especially harmful, but absolutely necessary for a good solder joint. The switch to lead-free solder was for people who work in electronics and are constantly exposed daily. From what I understand the worker exposure was from improper ventilation, bad safety practices and ingestion. A pair of tight fitting leather gloves might be a good option, tho I've never used any. If you want I can throw some tig-welding-gloves into my parcel - I have a bunch from previous jobs. My co-worker welders need them to feel their tools while being protected from the heat of their TIG welds while welding tube membranes. Let me know your glove size and I'll dig through my safety equipment pile. You could handle the tip of your soldering iron for about 8 seconds without being burnt while still feeling the basic shape of your tip, but it would stink badly of burnt goat skin.
I know it's recommended to avoid lead. I've worked in lead smelters and that requires regular blood tests to determine if you've been exposed. The amount of lead you might conceivably be exposed to while doing a few projects is so negligible as to be untraceable and would not likely have any effect on your health.. You get more from smoking a cigarette (proven) by co-workers who smoke and base-reading levels from me before and after quitting cigarettes. The lead isn't being boiled and vaporised - your iron can't do that. It's only being slightly melted and then solidified again. Mostly the fumes you're exposed to are from the rosin - it's actually derived from pine trees. Not especially harmful, but absolutely necessary for a good solder joint. The switch to lead-free solder was for people who work in electronics and are constantly exposed daily. From what I understand the worker exposure was from improper ventilation, bad safety practices and ingestion. A pair of tight fitting leather gloves might be a good option, tho I've never used any. If you want I can throw some tig-welding-gloves into my parcel - I have a bunch from previous jobs. My co-worker welders need them to feel their tools while being protected from the heat of their TIG welds while welding tube membranes. Let me know your glove size and I'll dig through my safety equipment pile. You could handle the tip of your soldering iron for about 8 seconds without being burnt while still feeling the basic shape of your tip, but it would stink badly of burnt goat skin.
Re: Conductive epoxy/adhesives vs solder
I'll join the chorus of folks encouraging marurun to learn to solder! I'm definitely a beginner but trying and practicing has given me the confidence to do basic repair/mods on consoles which is increasingly becoming an important skill for retrogamers.
I use the Weller soldering station Ziggy linked to above and it serves me well. I might sometimes have it set a bit too hot and it may be discoloring an outer layer of the silicon board but I'm under the impression that those things are pretty resilient and I've yet to have anything I work on stop working. I also lack a steady hand and my technique is definitely amateurish, but it feels good being able to fix things!
I use the Weller soldering station Ziggy linked to above and it serves me well. I might sometimes have it set a bit too hot and it may be discoloring an outer layer of the silicon board but I'm under the impression that those things are pretty resilient and I've yet to have anything I work on stop working. I also lack a steady hand and my technique is definitely amateurish, but it feels good being able to fix things!