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isiolia
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by isiolia Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:08 pm

I'd be surprised if they offer replaceable drives in future non-Pro machines. It's less a question of if they could, and a lot more that they don't seem to want to. Model refreshes have basically all seen the move to soldered-on storage as the T2 security chip is added (though the Pro machines have that and removable storage). The 21.5" iMac is the lone exception at this point, I think, and that's basically because it wasn't refreshed this year when the 27" was (it's the 2019 or for the 1080p model, 2017).
Even then, they don't intend the drive to be user upgradeable - same as the RAM, which is actually socketed, but inaccessible without razoring the LCD off (where the 27" still has a panel to pop off for upgrading).

Instead, they likely just figure those needing more space can use a Thunderbolt 3 drive. Which is, to a point, fair. Just not very great with respect to reparability.
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BomberDino
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by BomberDino Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:52 pm

Are any of these newer models fanless?
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isiolia
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by isiolia Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:57 pm

The new Air is fanless.
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by marurun Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:53 pm

The Mini has a blower but is reportedly incredibly quiet even at full load.
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Anapan
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by Anapan Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:08 am

It's neat that a single non multi-threaded (headed) architecture exists that is that powerful. I was reading that this type of CPU layout was what made AMD just totally blow anything Intel can do out of the water as far as CPU design is concerned.
I was just planning an Intel and Nvidia total rebuild of my desktop, and had my co-workers making fun of my unwillingness to build a "threadripper" with all AMD parts. My plan would be foolish, but I am still hoping to salvage this new build into something not laughable...Now if I want the best emulation machine, I gotta build a Mac?
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racketboy
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by racketboy Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:25 am

isiolia wrote:I'd be surprised if they offer replaceable drives in future non-Pro machines. It's less a question of if they could, and a lot more that they don't seem to want to. Model refreshes have basically all seen the move to soldered-on storage as the T2 security chip is added (though the Pro machines have that and removable storage). The 21.5" iMac is the lone exception at this point, I think, and that's basically because it wasn't refreshed this year when the 27" was (it's the 2019 or for the 1080p model, 2017).
Even then, they don't intend the drive to be user upgradeable - same as the RAM, which is actually socketed, but inaccessible without razoring the LCD off (where the 27" still has a panel to pop off for upgrading).

Instead, they likely just figure those needing more space can use a Thunderbolt 3 drive. Which is, to a point, fair. Just not very great with respect to reparability.


If they could make a Mini Pro/iMac Pro with a removable, that would be nice at least.
I get the Apple way of thinking -- and honestly, most people nowadays aren't going to replace drives anyway -- more so as we progress into the future.

marurun wrote:The Mini has a blower but is reportedly incredibly quiet even at full load.


At lot of the reviews of the MacBook Pro often say the same thing. Only under super heavy loads and even still pretty quiet.
But I'm still very much looking forward to my fanless MacBook Air. I almost jumped on this last MacBook Air revision until I heard the fan complaints.
Seems like the only thing I will miss from my 2014 Air will be the Magsafe charging :)
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by racketboy Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:28 am

Anapan wrote:It's neat that a single non multi-threaded (headed) architecture exists that is that powerful. I was reading that this type of CPU layout was what made AMD just totally blow anything Intel can do out of the water as far as CPU design is concerned.
I was just planning an Intel and Nvidia total rebuild of my desktop, and had my co-workers making fun of my unwillingness to build a "threadripper" with all AMD parts. My plan would be foolish, but I am still hoping to salvage this new build into something not laughable...Now if I want the best emulation machine, I gotta build a Mac?


Curious how the emulation scene will be on the Apple Silicon setup. You have to admit a Mac Mini would be a pretty sweet emulation box if the software was there...
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by RCBH928 Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:19 pm

@Racketboy

Why do you want a removable drive? You can always clone 1:1 your hard drive for a backup, you can also boot from external drive. With Thunderbolt speeds+SSD that should be near native I think.

Also the Mac Mini is $700, no GPU, and 256GB storage. 8GB RAM.
Xbox Series S: $300, dedicated GPU, 512GB storage, 10GB RAM, you also get a free controller worth $60.
You tell me the better choice.

Side question: Those ROMS, they are built to work with specific console CPUs. Does the emulator do the heavy lifting between translating between the original CPU and the currently used CPU on the modern device? As in, the ROM is agnostic to the current CPU used?

marurun wrote:Not only is Apple now running their own CPU (they have to pay for an ARM license, but they are much more independent in what they can do with it compared to buying someone else's chip wholesale) but they've also finally proven that ARM can indeed fully compete with x86 in the desktop segment. Intel and AMD are now both on notice in all but the the power-hungry top segment of the market. And who knows what Apple has on tap for the next 2 years.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11 ... ompetitor/

tl:dr Apple's new M1 appears to be the single-threaded performance IPC king. Nothing on the market can touch it for single-threaded performance. Multi-threaded it tops every mobile CPU and many (most?) desktop CPUs and is hamstrung only by the fact that 4 of its 8 cores are lower-power "little" cores. I suspect workstation class machines will have more "big" cores and fewer "little" cores to take advantage of the massive power of the "big" cores' IPC advantage. I honestly did not expect an ARM CPU to take the IPC crown. That's truly frightening.


I was told RISC/ARM was always the better performer but since all the other software was already running on CISC\x86 they just didn't bother to make the switch. Actually Apple turned to PowerPC(ARM) in 1993 or so but I am not sure what they were using before that. Then they abandoned because PowerPC maker IBM was not putting enough investment into it so they went to Intel and now back to their own ARM. There is excitement about running Linux native on M1 Apple computers, there is a guy on Twitter is surveying people if they are willing to donate/fund such project. They say he was able to run Linux or FreeBSD on PS4 so he knows whats he is talking about.

One thing people are not paying attention to, is that the new M1 chips not only perform superbly but they do so at less wattage and less heat generated. They new Apple laptops has some crazy battery life like 18hrs or something like that.

I am not sure if I understand this correctly, but...what if we get an ARM GPUs? what happens then? Or does the GPU not deal with RISC or CISC instruction sets?

isiolia wrote:On the other hand, every other major OS already has an ARM version as well. Granted, losing legacy applications is a much bigger thing on Windows...since it actually has them, unlike macOS. However, for modern Office/etc, the ARM versions are already there (lower end Surface products have been on that for years). MS or others could end up putting together similarly great CPUs. The uptake just may not be as universal, as given a choice (that Mac users won't have), Windows folks seem to opt for keeping decades worth of software working. Given a good emulation layer though, could get interesting.


Reviewers say that they can't distinguish between x86 apps being emulated vs native ARM ones. They are speculating that Apple is not emulating on the software side but something in the chip itself is dedicated for emulating x86 giving near native performance. Microsoft can try something similar.

I am not a Microsoft guy but I have heard this corporates want the legacy software and refuse to update to more modern methods. I think by now its time to drop the weights of legacy libraries or whatever and make Windows lighter and more advanced. They should release 2 versions of Windows, Windows Legacy who want the old software and Windows Future( :lol: ) to move with new tech. and times. But what will happen to the sweet sweet PC games of the 90s and early 2000s?
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racketboy
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by racketboy Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:18 pm

RCBH928 wrote:@Racketboy

Why do you want a removable drive? You can always clone 1:1 your hard drive for a backup, you can also boot from external drive. With Thunderbolt speeds+SSD that should be near native I think.


Just for upgrading or replacing a defective. Say, for my iMac, I've upgraded the drive. Didn't want to have to have an external hooked up to my iMac all the time.
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RCBH928 wrote:Also the Mac Mini is $700, no GPU, and 256GB storage. 8GB RAM.
Xbox Series S: $300, dedicated GPU, 512GB storage, 10GB RAM, you also get a free controller worth $60.
You tell me the better choice.

Power Consumption and Size weight heavily for me for Mac Mini. I'm honestly not that interested in any current gen gaming hardware. I wouldn't go out and buy a Mini for pure emulation. Would probably just use MiSTer. But once these machines get older and sell cheaper later or you repurpose one you used as a primary PC.
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Re: Apple has finally done it

by benderx Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:56 am

Macs are great less interference compared to Windows. It Depends which model you want. Cost can be issue. The only thing different now its harder to upgrade component parts. I Also Wish the graphics card would push it higher than be behind.
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