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Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:09 pm
by MrPopo
PartridgeSenpai wrote:
pierrot wrote:
PartridgeSenpai wrote:[...B]ut it's much better implemented in the sequel where you have a party from the start (I believe).

The third one lets you pick your party immediately, but you don't get the second and third characters until later. It's a number of hours before all three are together.


Isn't the 3rd game only 2 player or something? I recall reading somewhere that you can't actually use the multitap in that one or some other and just the two of you switch between 3 characters. If they actually make you play several hours to get your other party members again, that is doubly atrocious game design. How on Earth did they not learn it was a terrible idea the first time?! TwT

Two things:

1. SoM does not require hours before you get either the girl or the sprite. I'd put it at 15-30 minutes.

2. SD3 is two player only (though the ROM has a patch available to enable three player play) and takes between 15 and 45 minutes before you get your second player. There's a lot more opportunity to waste time in SD3.

Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:14 pm
by PartridgeSenpai
MrPopo wrote:Two things:

1. SoM does not require hours before you get either the girl or the sprite. I'd put it at 15-30 minutes.

2. SD3 is two player only (though the ROM has a patch available to enable three player play) and takes between 15 and 45 minutes before you get your second player. There's a lot more opportunity to waste time in SD3.


Perhaps if you really know what you are doing and are good at the game, but that was not the set-up in my case. As a first time player, I was fairly mispleased about the whole situation. It didn't help that I had to rescue the girl from the werewolves which is apparently the far harder first character to get.

I stand by my claim that making an ostensibly multiplayer RPG where the extra players are forced to wait until their playable characters are introduced via the narrative is just not good game design. Perhaps it makes for a better narrative, but with SoM's hella flat characters, I'd certainly say the sacrifice isn't worth it.

Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:03 pm
by Xeogred
People crapping one of my favorite games of all time...

It definitely doesn't take hours to get your fully party. And in SD3 if you pick Carli/Sprite for your third, you have the full three before the first major boss in the caves. I think some triggers can change up when you get the girl in SoM, but it's still not hours.

I've only played the SNES games solo and always saw the mulitplayer feature as a cool bonus.

Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:32 am
by MrPopo
Don't worry Xeogred, I got your back. SoM was the third part of the holy trinity of US SNES RPGs.

Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:43 am
by PartridgeSenpai
Xeogred wrote:People crapping one of my favorite games of all time...

It definitely doesn't take hours to get your fully party. And in SD3 if you pick Carli/Sprite for your third, you have the full three before the first major boss in the caves. I think some triggers can change up when you get the girl in SoM, but it's still not hours.

I've only played the SNES games solo and always saw the mulitplayer feature as a cool bonus.


I suppose after this and the Mega Man stuff in the Not Beaten thread, it's just safe to say that you and I have fairly different taste in games :P

Don't get me wrong, I don't think SoM is an awful game. It's like a very solid 7/10 ARPG. A lot of good with enough flaws present that not everyone will be able to see past them. Hopefully this remake is like Yakuza Kiwami and it gives it the modern playability update it really needs.

Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:15 pm
by BoneSnapDeez
Secret of Mana is strong in the aesthetics department, but the gameplay unquestionably has some issues. If the combat was more similar to A Link to the Past or (even better) Ys Book I & II, and if the magic system wasn't completely broken, we'd be looking at vastly superior game overall.

That said, the combat mechanics are "sufficient" and the graphics and music and absolutely stunning. I mean holy shit dat OST.

Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:16 pm
by Xeogred
Only thing I knock on is that the charge attack mechanic is really silly in the late game, since it takes forever to charge it up*. But once you figure out how the hit detection works and can even manipulate that, it can be easy to abuse with charge attacks and magic. I have never really noticed issues with the weird magic leveling system, I think if you just naturally utilize magic a lot throughout the game it should be well leveled as you go along. But maybe some power leveling is needing near the end. It can be a hard game no matter how you cut it and I love that about it. Probably one of the fastest starting JRPG's of all time, you're killing cute rabbits within a minute. The simplicity to Secret of Mana is something I love about it. I would say hitting stuff in it feels better than Link to the Past and I say that as someone who rates that Zelda as the best game ever (next to Super Metroid), but unlike some here I don't call Zelda RPG's. I think a better comparison to Mana is the Quintet stuff. But your comparison totally makes sense.

I mean, all these little nitpicks... we must remember, it could be Secret of Evermore. Which had limited items for its wacky magic system. I'm still a big fan and the hit detection and general smoothness of the game seems better than Mana's, but the two SNES Mana games are on a different level in every department.

* They fixed this in SD3 with a cooler combo system of sorts. SD3's combat system is literally perfect and no ARPG has surpassed it since.

I think it just depends on the day and my mood, but yeah the best SNES RPG's of all time in my book are: FF4, FF6, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Seiken Densetsu 3. Lost track of how many times I've replayed all of these. :mrgreen:

Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:22 pm
by o.pwuaioc
I've played SoM multiplayer twice. Once with sevin0seven (though I can't remember how far we got) and once with my wife. Both times we got at least 2 people within 15 minutes, and the full party under an hour. And that's navigating with two people.

I think the graphics look like garbage and I will not be playing. I also don't have a PS4 nor even Windows anymore, so I can't, but even if I did, I wouldn't. I also do not want a 3D version of Super Metroid, Link to the Past (sorry 3DS), Final Fantasy IV, or Super Castlevania IV.

2D is good enough for me.

Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:32 pm
by Xeogred
Image

Image
(technically SD3 yeah I know)

Better tech than Uncharted 4.

Re: Secret of Mana 3D remaster coming

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:01 pm
by pierrot
MrPopo wrote:2. SD3 is two player only (though the ROM has a patch available to enable three player play) and takes between 15 and 45 minutes before you get your second player. There's a lot more opportunity to waste time in SD3.

Are you sure about those numbers? Maybe it's possible to get the second player in under 45 minutes, but I feel like it's highly unlikely for anyone who's even moderately interested in the story and NPCs, or not using a walkthrough. I played as Reese, and I'm pretty sure I did not get to the boat before the 45 minute mark. That still leaves getting out of the town that's on lock down, fumbling around in the forest, and befriending a Sylph, no?