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Gunstar Green
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by Gunstar Green Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:33 am

Tanooki wrote:Well personally if I were you I'd go with what works best, sounds, best, behaves best -- NON-TMSS launch era Genesis. I read up a bit how people said it has the best visual output and specifically audio, but also that system doesn't have any lockout crap inside. Some systems aren't too friendly with unlicensed third party titles and seeing that I like some of those things like Star Control, I had to go with an original. Yes I know the dumb thing doesn't put out the stereo audio on it unless you use headphones (or mod it) but the trade off is there.


This is the absolute best way to roll for collectors. Amazing sound with no need to mod and no annoying lockout system.

I have a launch Genesis and one of the "good" model 2's but even the best model 2 isn't quite as nice sounding. You can do a Mega Amp mod to some model 2's that make them amazing however that's more complicated than the simple re-cap a model 1 might need.
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Sarge
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by Sarge Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:34 am

I have three Model 2 systems. I don't have any issues with two of them, but the last one has developed an audio crackle. I've recapped the thing, and it's still there, which makes me think there's either a bad ground, or it's something chip-related.

I think, unlike the TG-16/Duo, Sega used better caps. But my guess is that you could also track down someone to recap it for you if you really want to be sure of it. I'd definitely roll with a Model 1 if you have the option.
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CRTGAMER
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by CRTGAMER Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:37 am

Tanooki wrote:Well personally if I were you I'd go with what works best, sounds, best, behaves best -- NON-TMSS launch era Genesis. I read up a bit how people said it has the best visual output and specifically audio, but also that system doesn't have any lockout crap inside. Some systems aren't too friendly with unlicensed third party titles and seeing that I like some of those things like Star Control, I had to go with an original. Yes I know the dumb thing doesn't put out the stereo audio on it unless you use headphones (or mod it) but the trade off is there.

I don't think the TMSS is that big a deal other then bypassing the boot logo, unlikely you would come across a Genesis cart that would not boot.

Definitely a Model 1 with the "HIGH DEFINITION GRAPHICS" logo for the best audio chip inside. Oh and get an adapter cable to obtain stereo output from the front headphone jack.

No issue of capacitors on my Model 1, still contains the original factory caps inside. Silly that many state recap as the first solution in "repairing" Genesis, Nomad and other systems. I would only recap as the very last step after checking all other options including video/audio output and cart connector.

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marlowe221
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by marlowe221 Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:52 pm

Thanks for the input everyone. I really appreciate it.

I know maintenance of some kind is always going to be an issue with old video game hardware. That's a big part of the reason why I recently downsized the number of physical systems I own/play. There were a few, though, that I wasn't quite ready to give up on and go all emulation and the Genesis was one of them.

When I read about people re-capping Model 1 systems I wondered if it was a little gamer-hypochondria or not. Based on the responses here, I am beginning to suspect that is part of it. After all, my Atari 2600 from 1982 is still rocking along just fine and I assume it must have a capacitor or two, right?

I will probably go after a Model 1 then... Why should I care about TMSS though, just because of the lack of a boot up screen?
Have: Sega Genesis, SNES, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Atari 800XL, PC, N3DS XL, Wii U, GBA, Xbox One, Switch

Want: Games!!!
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samsonlonghair
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by samsonlonghair Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:25 pm

marlowe221 wrote:
samsonlonghair wrote:The hour is nigh.


Well, that's actually my concern with the venerable Model 1s. Have you experienced any capacitor related issues? How concerned are you - if you are at all - about that kind of thing?

As far as the Model 3 only having mono sound goes... Well, I'm not much of an audiophile and a splitter to make sound come out of both of the crappy speakers on my old CRT would probably do just fine.

Haven't had a single problem.
marlowe221 wrote:I will probably go after a Model 1 then... Why should I care about TMSS though, just because of the lack of a boot up screen?

You know that bit of text that says "Produced by or under license from Sega"? That's TMSS.
TMSS was a software-based region lockout system that only prevents a very small minority of games from running. More info here: http://segaretro.org/TradeMark_Security_System
Suffice to say it has never presented me with any problems after twenty-five years of playing Sega Genesis.

The best guide I ever read to Genesis hardware revisions is here: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread ... m-bad-ones
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by Tanooki Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:45 pm

Ziggy it was mine first too, I never intended the year I got it in the mid/latter 90s to own a Sega but I had this aussie female friend who was a Sonic/Sega nut who bought a big box of NTSC stuff but didn't need but some of the games, so to pay for it to be shipped down under I got a Model3 and like 20 games 'free' basically. It wasn't bad but it just didnt look or sound all that nice. At the time I had been using a stereo receiver and some Y cables on the NES, SNES as is, and the Duo so it was obviously inferior. I stepped up to a Nomad 2nd and it blew it out so I sold it. The original G1 Genesis was just something I got 11 months ago. I have a soft spot for the G3 version but not enough to own it again including the stupid cable placement.

I think I still have my NES Y Cable around, I should run that sucker through the front port on my Genesis to get good audio out of it finally. Feel stupid not even thinking of that.

I was thinking longer term if I stuck with the Genesis I might want to own a 32X and maybe the SegaCD(until I saw the shit flipper trolls have made all the good->excellent games) Nintendo level cost prohibitive if you buy complete which I only do with disc based games on any generation. That sad G3 genesis doesn't do the add-on devices.


Oh and recap paranoia, that's what it is, and it's Sega's own damn fault. While they used superior boards and caps within the Genesis and later CONSOLES, they used stuff (honestly call it as it is SHIT) that made the NEC caps look stable on their handhelds so I get the fears. That guide in the post just above, I remember using that to pick which Genesis I was going to buy as it's solid.
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Ziggy587
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by Ziggy587 Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:47 pm

I got a model 3 back when they first came out. A few years later, I traded it in and got a model 1 when they were $20 at Funco Land, I have no idea what revision. A few years after that, I traded in my model 1 and got a model 2 (with bad audio, although I was clueless to that fact back then).

In more recent years, I ended up with a few different model 2's and a High Definition Graphics model 1 without TMSS. At that time, I wanted to slim down what I owned and forced myself to choose between keeping a model 1 or 2.

I actually made a ton of clips, recorded from the sound tests in a few games, between the model 1 and the two model 2's I had. I spent a lot of time listening back and forth between my non-TMSS model 1 and my 2/3 board model 2. I can get why people say the model 1 sounds "better" or it's "the way it's suppose to sound" but honestly, the later model 2's sound alright. Different, but neither better or worse.

I ended up keeping the model 2 because I didn't care about the difference in sound. The 2/3 mobo model 2 doesn't have distortion like the other revisions, and that was the important part. With the model 1, I noticed that there would be some distortion when the volume slider is at 10, which is kinda annoying (I know you can set it at ~7, but I find that to be annoying). Also, the only way to get stereo audio is to use the front headphones jack, which is ultra annoying to me. You need special cables or adapters to do what the model 2 can do with just the standard cable.

My other deciding factor was the Sega CD, which I don't use very often, but I had to consider this since I own one. The model 1 Sega CD looks bad ass, but I'll never get one due to the issues they have, while the model 2 Sega CD don't have those issues. So I'm forever sticking with the model 2 Sega CD. The model 1 Genesis with the model 2 Sega CD is just awfully long. And by that I mean, it's AWFUL how long it is. I also don't have the extension thing for a model 1 Genny, so mine would have to hang over the edge and look even stupider. All that combined is why I chose the later revision model 2 and got rid of all my other Genesis consoles.

MOST recently though, I got another HDG model 1 (this time with TMSS) from a friend and decided to keep it. Currently, I use the model 1 with my HDTV (I have a Framemeister and an RGB cable that has a 3.5mm plug for the headphones jack) and I use my model 2 (modified with S-Video output) with my CRT. I plan to keep both, and that way I don't have to worry about which model is best. :lol: They both have pros and cons in my book.
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marlowe221
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by marlowe221 Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:18 pm

Yeah, I may look around and see if I can find a 3/4 motherboard Model 2 even though they can be hard to find. I mean, I already have the right AC adapter and A/V cables...
Have: Sega Genesis, SNES, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Atari 800XL, PC, N3DS XL, Wii U, GBA, Xbox One, Switch

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Sarge
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by Sarge Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:19 pm

I have to agree, the sound between a good Model 1 and Model 2 is noticeable, but not to the level of panicking about it. A good Model 2 still sounds fine.
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Ziggy587
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Re: Replacing My Genesis Model 2

by Ziggy587 Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:28 pm

I've heard that the sound channels are mixed differently, as in, the levels of each channel aren't the same between the two models. So the argument "it's not how it's suppose to sound" has some weight, being that you could argue the model 1 Genesis was the original model and all subsequent revisions altered it.

The argument that I hear most though is that the model 1 has more bass than the (good) model 2. Some people say, "So just turn the bass up a little." If you care that much about audio, you have a sound system, right? But a few people still say, no, turning the bass up still doesn't correct the different mixing the model 2 has.

But yeah, I agree, the difference IS there but it's not anything to fret over. I'm just pointing out the argument that I typically heard when I was trying to choose myself.
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