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Zelda Minus World
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:13 pm
by Jake Armitage
Re: Zelda Minus World
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:51 am
by Tanooki
Wow not a reply about this?! I'm mind blown I guess. I see how it would make a whole lot of sense in such a limited amount of space, and I did know the dungeons were in a master file that kind of interlocked like puzzle pieces. I just didn't know you could get into a -1 minus world like situation. Doesn't seem as cut and dry where anyone can glitch themselves into it like on SMB but still pretty nice.
I doubt I'll bother with it though, time and all, but given I had it I'd love to explore.
Re: Zelda Minus World
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:46 am
by Stark
Whoa, this is crazy.
Re: Zelda Minus World
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:18 am
by Nyukki
Awesome! Is there a tutorial explaining how to glitch into this monus world?
Re: Zelda Minus World
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:37 pm
by nightrnr
From what I understand (very little), it's actually reading data for other things in the game.
Found this guys comment interesting/informative, if a bit negative:
I wonders what the 2nd quest-minus looks like, or if much the same.
Re: Zelda Minus World
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:57 pm
by pierrot
nightrnr wrote:Found this guys comment interesting/informative, if a bit negative:
Oh, this is very interesting, and makes much more sense to me. Basically what he's saying is that the minus world is nothing, and therefore, asking what the minus world of the 2nd quest is, is asking the wrong question. So, there would be a subroutine in the program code that loads map tile and other sprite data positions as its inputs, and generates the map screen out of those inputs, which should be placed in specific layouts for specific grids on the map (I assume, as I don't know what they used for an exact algorithm). That comment is describing this as changing the inputs to the map generation subroutine ('subprocess,' if you prefer) from those known/intended tile constructions to some "random" (or garbage) inputs. The input positions would then be essentially random, and not remotely intended. In all likelihood, the input is a pointer, and the glitch is forcing that pointer into data, or ram locations that it shouldn't be accessing, and using that disassociated data as positioning values instead.
Hopefully that makes some sense. There isn't really enough detail for me to say definitively that this is what's happening, but that response just triggered a bit of my general embedded systems knowledge.
Re: Zelda Minus World
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:12 pm
by MrPopo
Yeah; old games were pretty good about interpreting garbage data as maps. The "hidden worlds" of the original Metroid are well documented examples of this. There's a speedrun of Super Mario Land 2 which ends up loading the game's RAM as level data, and you then maneuver through it to flip a flag in the RAM to make the game think you won.
Re: Zelda Minus World
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:56 pm
by pierrot
MrPopo wrote:There's a speedrun of Super Mario Land 2 which ends up loading the game's RAM as level data, and you then maneuver through it to flip a flag in the RAM to make the game think you won.
Oh, I kind of remember seeing that at a GDQ. Was that a TASbot run?
Re: Zelda Minus World
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:20 pm
by MrPopo
It was at a GDQ, but it wasn't TASbot; it was a runner doing it live. So he had to do it twice, because the first time he screwed up the RAM manipulation.