World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

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CRTGAMER
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by CRTGAMER »

marurun wrote:Trump's executive actions on the ACA has the potential to have several negative effects:

1) Cause some insurers to pull out of marketplaces due to uncertainty, limiting choice and raising prices.
2) Raise premiums if enrollments stall due to removal of the individual mandate.
3) Raising health care costs if the end result is that fewer people have insurance due to hospitals performing procedures which then won't be reimbursed.

Most of the ideas offered by Republican lawmakers for replacement medical plans are also pretty blah. They would largely shrink the number of insured, raise insurance and procedure costs as a result of the smaller number of insured, and make insurance unattainable again for those very close to the poverty line.

Getting rid of the state monopolies and instead the nation wide insurance choice should have some affect on reducing costs, competition always a good thing. I do wish there are price controls implemented for pharmaceuticals and ALL procedures. The way visits are handled now, different charges to insurance are based on what one carries for insurance! The system now is like charging one customer fifty cents for a gallon of milk and another customer pays five dollars. :?

Forced Mandate should be jobs over Health Care
Yes everyone should have Health Care, but the priority first when this came out years ago should be jobs! Imagine that; force everyone capable of working to have a Health Care Job Option available to them. The infrastructure bill and Trade Agreement fixes coming out should help that situation.

With the Health Care fines removed, a concern where the money will be generated. So wrong to fine people who do not want to sign up. It was mentioned a Catastrophe Health Care option perfect for younger people who statistically are more healthy and on a tighter income; that looks like a much better viable option. Pay your own way for routine clinic visits and medication and have the coverage for just serious injuries. Why was this not done initially?!
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by dsheinem »

why are you ignoring my respectfully asked questions, CRT?
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by CRTGAMER »

dsheinem wrote:why are you ignoring my respectfully asked questions, CRT?

I already mentioned in my first Reply my thoughts on the Spicer incident. See no point on us arguing back and forth.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by ZeroAX »

CRTGAMER wrote:Forced Mandate should be jobs over Health Care
Yes everyone should have Health Care, but the priority first when this came out years ago should be jobs! Imagine that; force everyone capable of working to have a Health Care Job Option available to them.


Like handicapped people? Or cancer paitents? Seriously man, at least bother to google the benefits of universal healthcare.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by CRTGAMER »

Why are you doing the spin?

I did mention capable and the job option choice. I know of handicapped people that prefer to work for personal satisfaction and of course a suffering cancer patient should not work.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by alienjesus »

Also assumes that all jobs will pay people sufficiently to afford healthcare.

More jobs is not the same as more well-paid jobs.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by marurun »

CRTGAMER wrote:Getting rid of the state monopolies and instead the nation wide insurance choice should have some affect on reducing costs, competition always a good thing.


This would not fix things the way you seem to think it would.

The trouble is that varying or numerous state regulations aren’t the main reason insurance markets tend to be uncompetitive. Selling insurance in a new region or state takes more than just getting a license and including all the locally required benefits. It also involves setting up favorable contracts with doctors and hospitals so that customers will be able to get access to health care. Establishing those networks of health care providers can be hard for new market entrants.

“The barriers to entry are not truly regulatory, they are financial and they are network,” said Sabrina Corlette, the director of the Georgetown University Health Policy Institute. In 2012, Ms. Corlette and co-authors completed a study of a number of states that passed laws to allow out-of-state insurance sales. Not a single out-of-state insurer had taken them up on the offer. As Ms. Corlette’s paper highlighted, there is no federal impediment to across-state-lines arrangements. The main difficulty is that most states want to regulate local products themselves. The Affordable Care Act actually has a few provisions to encourage more regional and national sales of insurance, but they have not proved popular.

Insurers have been muted in their enthusiasm for G.O.P. across-state-lines plans. Neither America’s Health Insurance Plans, the lobbying group for most private insurers, nor the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association have endorsed such a plan when it has come before Congress.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/upshot/the-problem-with-gop-plans-to-sell-health-insurance-across-state-lines.html?_r=0


Basically, the insurance across state lines issue is a non-starter. Even where there is uniformity in Federal law, like with Medicare, companies simply don't want to venture into new territory. They don't want to compete. The ACA already tried to make them and they resisted.

It was mentioned a Catastrophe Health Care option perfect for younger people who statistically are more healthy and on a tighter income; that looks like a much better viable option. Pay your own way for routine clinic visits and medication and have the coverage for just serious injuries. Why was this not done initially?!


Because economically it's a bad idea. Insurers can encourage good health behavior by subsidizing regular checkups, and that good behavior reduces catastrophic events. Companies can also recoup costs by up-charging generics. Depending on the generic drug, it can be cheaper to purchase without a prescription at Walmart or CVS rather than going through the insurers pharmacy plan. Most people don't think twice about the fact that they paid $20 for a 90-day generic instead of $12, and that does help insurers recoup costs.

Catastrophic-only coverage would therefore not necessarily be any cheaper for the insured, because it would remove any ability at all of insurers to reduce risk in their insured pool or recoup costs. And if the ACA eliminates protections for those with pre-existing conditions or removes the prohibition on maximum benefit caps, catastrophic-only coverage would become a dangerous space to be a consumer in, because companies would do their damnedest to make sure your insurance contract cuts you off once you become a liability, or simply excludes the riskiest cohorts, ensuring the millions will fall back into the ranks of the uninsured, putting further pressure on emergency rooms and hospitals.

And if catastrophic-only isn't significantly cheaper, then people will simply not get preventive care because they won't be able to afford it out of pocket. And people with persistent conditions like diabetes will therefore not have medical attention until a catastrophic event. They'll be in and out of the emergency room with no preventive care in-between, which is the exact same model as those who are uninsured, and if you're going to do that, why bother to get insurance anyway?
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by dsheinem »

CRTGAMER wrote:
dsheinem wrote:why are you ignoring my respectfully asked questions, CRT?

I already mentioned in my first Reply my thoughts on the Spicer incident. See no point on us arguing back and forth.


Wait. Hold Up. I don't think I'm dumb. In fact I'm pretty sure that I know a little bit about what makes for clear communication on a forum like this, and I cannot at all get the same read as you on how the discussion has unfolded. Maybe you don't understand the question I am asking..(or at least you are maybe not reading them in the right tone). Perhaps that's my fault.

Here's my sense of things: I agreed with you to basically put our disagreement about the merit of the Spicer press conference aside. Yes, we "argued" that and came to an impasse. But I still had a tangential, related question for you yet lingering.

Let's pretend the statements I mentioned in my past post were made by anyone else (say - for example - one of your children, or a co-worker, etc.). Here they are, again:


Spicer said, "We know that 420,000 people used the D.C, Metro public transit yesterday, which actually compares to 317,000 for president Obama's last inaugural."

Spicer's number for ridership on Friday was actually low -- the correct number, according to Metro itself, was 570,557. But there were actually 782,000 trips taken for Obama's second inaugural in 2013.



"This is the first time in our nation's history that floor coverings have been used to protect the grass on the Mall," Spicer said, claiming that this "had the effect of highlighting areas people were not standing whereas in years past the grass eliminated this visual."

In fact, coverings were used for Obama's second inauguration in 2013.



"This was also the first time that fencing and magnetometers went as far back on the Mall, preventing hundreds of thousands of people from being able to access the Mall as quickly as they had in inaugurations past," Spicer said.

In fact, a United States Secret Service spokesperson told CNN, no magnetometers were used on the Mall


The questions that I then asked were not so much about the merit of the "incident" as such or Trump or anything else - they were about what makes something either clearly true or clearly false for you. Here they are:
CRT: Regardless of your characterization of his remarks or the role of Twitter, the press, etc. can you at least acknowledge that Spicer's claims about attendance were full of shit?

How much evidence demonstrating that he had unequivocally lied would it take for you to agree with me?

What would you then do with that knowledge?


So, truly, I don't want to argue whether the press conference was worth having, whether it was scary or cathartic, whether it is representative of Trump or not (at least not yet). All I am asking - and I am using these statements from a press conference as an example - is "What, for you, counts as sufficient evidence to make something true?"

Whither thy discernment?
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by Ack »

dsheinem wrote:Whither thy discernment?


Well look at you with your $2 words.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by CRTGAMER »

dsheinem wrote:
CRTGAMER wrote:
dsheinem wrote:why are you ignoring my respectfully asked questions, CRT?
I already mentioned in my first Reply my thoughts on the Spicer incident. See no point on us arguing back and forth.
Wait. Hold Up. I don't think I'm dumb. In fact I'm pretty sure that I know a little bit about what makes for clear communication on a forum like this, and I cannot at all get the same read as you on how the discussion has unfolded. Maybe you don't understand the question I am asking..(or at least you are maybe not reading them in the right tone). Perhaps that's my fault.

Here's my sense of things: I agreed with you to basically put our disagreement about the merit of the Spicer press conference aside. Yes, we "argued" that and came to an impasse. But I still had a tangential, related question for you yet lingering.

So, truly, I don't want to argue whether the press conference was worth having, whether it was scary or cathartic, whether it is representative of Trump or not (at least not yet). All I am asking - and I am using these statements from a press conference as an example - is "What, for you, counts as sufficient evidence to make something true?"

Whither thy discernment?

Appreciate the canter comments and questions. We each have our take on the Spicer Conference and the dispute on attendance. In watching that extended triad on Sunday Meet the Press (uncut via YouTube) as well as dragged out followup rebuttals on NBC as well as Fox, so pointless in determining the winner on the crowds. A low concern vs why the Media not focused on real issues such as the delay voting on the Cabinet and all the changes that are taking place. This week there will be many Executive Action changes affecting the nation, this should have been the primary concern in all the media.

Now the real issue which I think your are alluding to; will Sean Spicer be honest in future Press Conference statements? Just as in the Media, take in the information and judge. Each administration past and present determine their own course by what they accomplish and put out in the News Conferences; to obtain the trust of the people.
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