The "True/Spiritual successor to the Sega Saturn is......

[samsonlonghair]

After Sega stopped developing arcade games on their Sega Titan Video platform (equivalent to Saturn) circa 1994-1999, Sega moved on to developing arcade games for Naomi (Dreamcast) circa 1998-2009, Triforce (Gamecube) circa 2003-2006, and Chihiro (XBOX) circa 2003-2007.

So based on Sega's arcade hardware, we can reasonably extrapolate that Dreamcast, Gamecube, and XBOX are all successors to Saturn.

[Flake]

I guess in a similar vein we should start calling the N64 a unequivocal failure.

That is also true. Also, yes, the Saturn did marginally better in Japan than it did in the United States but we're talking about a global market for a global product here. It was still a huge flop. Maybe if Sega Japan and Sega US hadn't been in a wasteful pissing match with each other, they could have avoided such an outcome.

I actually do like the Saturn quite a bit - but I also like the NeoGeo Pocket Color which was also a total failure.

[bmoc]

You guys are all wrong. Given that the Saturn is a 2D powerhouse, the successor is clearly the Intellivison Amico.

Seriously though, there have been a lot of good points made in this thread. I have enjoyed reading them.

[BoneSnapDeez]

Dreamcast.

[marurun]

If it weren't for Sega's software development and third party relationships, the Saturn would have been just another footnote console failure. Ironically, Sega was also the reason the Saturn failed.

A total, complete, utter, without exception failure but a pretty one with some good Megaman games.

It is actually super hard to determine is the Saturn was truly a commercial failure. In the US and Europe it clearly was, but 9.5 million units worldwide ain’t bad, and Sega has never released full numbers or accounting. It is still entirely possible the Saturn was a regional success in Japan and evidence suggests it was. Sega as a whole was an unhealthy company, even with hugely successful arcade titles. I’d the Saturn was financially profitable within the Japanese market, given how long the system persisted in that market, that would mean that the system wasn’t a complete failure. But that determination hinges on data Sega ain’t sharing. Because in the declining days of the Saturn in Japan they were throwing money into developing the Dreamcast. And the Saturn certainly wasn’t successful enough there to subsidize the Dreamcast.

And now I wonder if the Naomi and Atomiswave revenues made any dent in the red ink from the Dreamcast.

[pierrot]

And now I wonder if the Naomi and Atomiswave revenues made any dent in the red ink from the Dreamcast.

Yeah, now there's an interesting thought. For that matter, I wonder if the ST-V could have hurt SoJ's bottom-line at the time. I'm sure the modular design helped to keep costs down, but I'm not sure how many titles there were for it that would have really moved units. A lot of its library was pretty niche. I remember Die Hard Arcade being kind of popular in the US, but I don't know if that would have been true for Japan. I feel like Puyo Puyo Sun didn't have the same appeal as Tsuu for a lot of people, either. I think the ST-V was used for some of the earliest Print Club stalls, though. Those probably must have done gangbusters.

[isiolia]

Die Hard Arcade was Dynamite Detective in Japan, which got a sequel on Dreamcast. Not sure if that was due to popularity or just wanting to not need the license in other regions too.

[marurun]

When I was in Japan 98-99 there were still some ST-V titles doing OK business in the arcade. But ST-V was meant to be a low-end arcade platform, anyway.

It was probably the shooters like Cotton and Souky and Radiant that were the titles that did the best, at least in their niche.

[Dikdikvandik]

And now I wonder if the Naomi and Atomiswave revenues made any dent in the red ink from the Dreamcast.

Yeah, now there's an interesting thought. For that matter, I wonder if the ST-V could have hurt SoJ's bottom-line at the time. I'm sure the modular design helped to keep costs down, but I'm not sure how many titles there were for it that would have really moved units. A lot of its library was pretty niche. I remember Die Hard Arcade being kind of popular in the US, but I don't know if that would have been true for Japan. I feel like Puyo Puyo Sun didn't have the same appeal as Tsuu for a lot of people, either. I think the ST-V was used for some of the earliest Print Club stalls, though. Those probably must have done gangbusters.

Dynamite Deka got a port/remaster as part of Sega Ages line in Japan I think that's an indicator of popularity.

[pierrot]

Well it looks like I may have found my answer just by poking around in Wikipedia. Hard to tell what the original source is, but according to this Sega-16 article--

http://www.sega-16.com/2007/06/developers-den-sega-technical-institute/
"The numerous delays of both Comix Zone and The Ooze caused Sega Technical Institute to release its final two products at a time when all attention had been shifted away from the Genesis. Furthermore, by taking so long to bring the games to retail, vital development time for the newer consoles had been lost, causing the group to be tardy in its entry to the next generation. As a result, the only STI game to be released for the Saturn was Die Hard Arcade, a collaboration between the Institute and Sega’s AM1 team (later known as Wow Entertainment of House of the Dead fame). Sega of Japan’s coin-op division had over produced its Titan hardware, and since it already possessed the Die Hard license, the decision was made to create a game around 20th Century Fox’s famous movie. A core group of designers, artists, and programmers were sent from Japan to STI, which in turn provided the environment facility and additional staff for art (Institute artists like Betty Cunningham did texture work on both the arcade and Saturn versions), animation, and music. Die Hard Arcade was sold as both a dedicated cabinet and as a kit, and it went on to be Sega’s most successful U.S.-produced arcade game up to that point. The coin-op division sold off all of its excess inventory, and both branches of the company were pleased with the results of the union of team members."

--SoJ had overproduced on ST-V hardware, and sent a team from the AM1 group out to STI to work on something with the Die Hard license they had on hand, for some reason(?). The game's popularity in the US pushed out their inventory surplus. I had kind of thought that it was originally developed for the Japanese market, and then had the Die Hard license applied to it for the West, but I guess not. I wonder why they chose to not invoke the Die Hard license in Japan. The Wikipedia page says it was a worldwide release, which would sort of suggest that it was actually Die Hard Arcade in Japan until it was released on the Saturn, but there is actually a listing for Dynamite Deka on the ST-V wiki, with photos of the cartridge . So that's that, I guess. It's one of the games I'm really happy to have for the ST-V (along with Soukyugurentai) just to have a game I grew up playing a fair amount in the arcades, anyway. I should probably pick up a phoenixed X-Men vs Street Fighter board or something for my CPS2 at some point--.