Is Japan Behind?

[D.D.D.]

Nah. I started on Japanese arcade machines, went to the NES and then on.
I still like Japanese-made games mainly but I do like a lot of US/EU games too like: GTA, Road Rash, Excite Truck/Bots, Sim City, Tetris, Doom, Wolfenstein, Sierra adventure games, and others. I do wanna try a lot of the 360 games people have been recommending too cuz they look really fun in various videos I've been watching recently.

Anyway, JP games still are great, US/EU games are damn good too. If anything, everyone's skill and game-making abilities are rising, so are the bars of standards, and some of the things that were quirky/annoying/could be done better are just becoming more noticeable.

[Pulsar_t]

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... anese-fans

“They want a guided experience,” says Campbell. “They want their hands held. They want the familiar. They don’t want new. When you go against that, they get angry.”

As previously said, Japan is becoming increasingly niche and anti-change when it comes to derivative (or even formulaic), high-risk gaming business.

[ns12123]

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-09/17/western-gamemakers-struggle-to-get-japanese-fans

“They want a guided experience,” says Campbell. “They want their hands held. They want the familiar. They don’t want new. When you go against that, they get angry.”

As previously said, Japan is becoming increasingly niche and anti-change when it comes to derivative (or even formulaic), high-risk gaming business.

Agreed. Some people like to blame the West for the recent Japanese track record and claim that it's because they're trying to mimic the West, but really, it's not the majority of Japanese developers that are doing this.

I'd also like to express my dismay about Japanese story telling. You can blame dubbing and translation all you want, but the fact of the matter is that the stories themselves, no matter the translation, are just very cheesey and uninspired. It's like they were written for tweens.

I think that Japanese developers really could learn from the West in this regard. We want stories that are written for adults, and frankly, so do our younger counterparts, as anything that's good for an adult is about the best thing in the world to tweens and teens. I really wish that they'd drop the over-the-top ridiculous story concepts in games where they're trying to actively engage the gamer in a serious, melodramatic story (I'm looking at you, MGS4).

Developers like Hideo Kojima may have presentation down to an art, but the cheese factor just ruins it completely for me and many gamers I know. It's almost as if there's too much influence from over-the-top anime series.

[AppleQueso]

I'd also like to express my dismay about Japanese story telling. You can blame dubbing and translation all you want, but the fact of the matter is that the stories themselves, no matter the translation, are just very cheesey and uninspired. It's like they were written for tweens.

That's because they are

[the7k]

Yeah, for the most part, Japanese games are made for kids and teenagers because they're the only ones with enough free-time to actually devote themselves to games. Plus, Japan has as much an obsession with youth as the West has an obsession with adulthood - while we all want to be grown-ups, powerful and respected, it seems Japan just wants to go back to a simpler, carefree and innocent time. It's only natural that what we consider 'narrative brilliance' wouldn't stack up.

Of course, I could really care less about narrative. You want narrative, read a f'ing book. I'm here to play games.

[ZeroAX]

And yet Nintendo's games are a world apart from what the rest of the Japanese industry is making.

Why is that? IMO it has to do with Japan's business culture. Your boss there is the king. You don't go against what he says, or go directly to his higher ups in order to overturn his decision.

So most of the Japanese gaming companies, are run by executives that, like their western counterparts, don't know the first thing about video games. They just see what is popular and copy that in case they get a hit, and then they milk it to death (they probably went to the same business school as bobby kotick).



On the other hand, Nintendo is the only known Japanese gaming company that had game developers in the board. Heck Iwata said it himself

On my business card, I'm a company president... But my mind's that of a game developer... And at heart, I am a gamer.

imo if Japanese developers were let loose artistically (but with a control on their budget, we don't need another APB) they'd make great games once more.



Only two things I would like to complain about.

1) I do and don't mind the cheesy storylines depending on how they are executed (yeah Skies of Arcadia was kind of cheesy, but at the same time, because it didn't take itself seriously you could enjoy it for what it is).

But my huge gripe with stories in Japanese games is that they are full of plot holes, terrible pacing, and they scream that they weren't written from the start.

Do I need to bring FF8 into this to make my point? Irvine knew everyone but didn't say anything cause he thought that it wasn't cool that the rest didn't remember him? And even if he felt like that um, don't you usually say hi to those you know, before questioning if they remember you???


If you are making a game heavy on story, wouldn't it be a freaking GOOD idea to write it beforehand? That is like starting to build a house without blueprints.





and 2) Please oh please, stop using soooooooo many menus. They don't add to the gameplay. They only make the game worse. Just look at Valkyria chronicles. You have to go to a different menu tab, to change the menu tab..... FFS people... don't you play test these things? Just because an RPG is going to have menus, it doesn't mean you should overdo it.

[ns12123]

Yeah, for the most part, Japanese games are made for kids and teenagers because they're the only ones with enough free-time to actually devote themselves to games. Plus, Japan has as much an obsession with youth as the West has an obsession with adulthood - while we all want to be grown-ups, powerful and respected, it seems Japan just wants to go back to a simpler, carefree and innocent time. It's only natural that what we consider 'narrative brilliance' wouldn't stack up.

Of course, I could really care less about narrative. You want narrative, read a f'ing book. I'm here to play games.

It's not a matter of whether or not gamers want to see a narrative in a game and you're absolutely right: it's not required for a good experience. The problem lies when a narrative takes up a significant portion of the game, and the said narrative is cheesy, poorly written, and takes itself too seriously.

I can enjoy a somewhat childish, carefree game but the issue is that many childish games make a terrible attempt at forming a story that we're expected to be immersed in and take it seriously. Add in occasional toilet humor and other childish jokes and the immersion might as well die right there.

Nintendo does a great job at making enjoyable games directed for all audiences, but they really blew it with Metroid M. There are ways to write stories that all ages can enjoy, as evidenced by companies such as Pixar, and in contrast, there are ways to write stories that appeal to a limited demographic. Metroid M falls in the latter category.

[mobiusclimber]

I have to wonder sometimes about storytelling in games. In Japan, Dragon Quest outsells Final Fantasy and it has a more mature approach to storytelling, with believable characters who have understandable motives. And wow no plot holes. Final Fantasy in America, however, greatly outsells the Dragon Quest games, and yet all of the recent ones are some of the worst written games I've ever played, starting with FF8.

[ns12123]

I have to wonder sometimes about storytelling in games. In Japan, Dragon Quest outsells Final Fantasy and it has a more mature approach to storytelling, with believable characters who have understandable motives. And wow no plot holes. Final Fantasy in America, however, greatly outsells the Dragon Quest games, and yet all of the recent ones are some of the worst written games I've ever played, starting with FF8.

I think it has a lot to do with exposure. FF is simply better known in the US than the DQ series. We had DQ on the NES and Gameboy, but we didn't see it again until DQ7 on the PSX, if I'm not mistaken, meaning DQ3 through 6 never saw a US release during their respective generations. Sure, we didn't see FF2 and 3 at their initial release, but DQ basically skipped a generation here. And when we got DQ7, it came out near the end of PSX's popularity, meaning releases skipped damn near two generations in the west. And by the time DQ7 released, Square already had the adoration and loyalty of many US RPG gamers, with a peak in popularity after FF7 was released.

That's my perspective on it, anyway, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[MrPopo]

I have to wonder sometimes about storytelling in games. In Japan, Dragon Quest outsells Final Fantasy and it has a more mature approach to storytelling, with believable characters who have understandable motives. And wow no plot holes. Final Fantasy in America, however, greatly outsells the Dragon Quest games, and yet all of the recent ones are some of the worst written games I've ever played, starting with FF8.

I think it has a lot to do with exposure. FF is simply better known in the US than the DQ series. We had DQ on the NES and Gameboy, but we didn't see it again until DQ7 on the PSX, if I'm not mistaken, meaning DQ3 through 6 never saw a US release during their respective generations. Sure, we didn't see FF2 and 3 at their initial release, but DQ basically skipped a generation here. And when we got DQ7, it came out near the end of PSX's popularity, meaning releases skipped damn near two generations in the west. And by the time DQ7 released, Square already had the adoration and loyalty of many US RPG gamers, with a peak in popularity after FF7 was released.

That's my perspective on it, anyway, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

We had DQ1-4 here, though the later titles were released very late in the NES's lifetime, which hurt sales. Then DQ7 came out which changed none of the main mechanics and the graphics were very low-tech compared to other RPGs of the time, which were going in the direction of "cinematic experiences". DQ8 was the one that got people over here interested in Dragon Quest again, as it had that nice blend of classic DQ aesthetics and mechanics but with some concessions to modern design (such as seeing your characters attack and everything being in nice 3D).