Well congratulations for beating the computer. I hope it doesn't diminish your pride to know that no fighting game has ever had good AI. Try button mashing on a competent human being.lisalover1 wrote:You think so? Well, I might be missing out on some of the game's better attacks, then. I beat the whole game with only button mashing. Now, Virtua Fighter, THAT'S not button mashing.
You know what I hate about Fighters?
Well some games are still tough to complete due to insanely cheap bosses
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... ght=bosses
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... ght=bosses
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I didn't say some weren't tough, though. Having overpowerful moves and being programed to automatically use the correct counter move to your's a high frequency of the time is not good AI. Good AI is when the computer can adapt to your strategy. For example, Soul Calibur 3's RPG mode is known for being brutally cheap. But you can beat the entire thing by spamming one single move that the barbarian has. That's bad AI.racketboy wrote:Well some games are still tough to complete due to insanely cheap bosses
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... ght=bosses
Mozgus wrote:I didn't say some weren't tough, though. Having overpowerful moves and being programed to automatically use the correct counter move to your's a high frequency of the time is not good AI. Good AI is when the computer can adapt to your strategy. For example, Soul Calibur 3's RPG mode is known for being brutally cheap. But you can beat the entire thing by spamming one single move that the barbarian has. That's bad AI.racketboy wrote:Well some games are still tough to complete due to insanely cheap bosses
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... ght=bosses
And I never said it was good AI
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Bad AI is the definitive reason I'm not good at a lot of fighting games. Usually I adapt to trying to defend spammy moves and such, then when it comes to tournaments and such I suck ballz. I don't have any siblings that are good at games in general too so I'm never challenged.
I'm good at SSBB though.
I'm good at SSBB though.
Anybody ever had that moment where the AI suddenly does adapt to your strategy, and you suddenly find yourself developing a new one half way through arcade mode?
I'll give an example. I abuse air attacks for combo starters. Why? Simple. A lot of players aren't competent at pulling off anti-air moves when needed, and in those situations the best counter against me is usually to do what I do. But a computer can pull off a special move without a problem. While anti-air is pretty much standard nowadays, it used to be something characters wouldn't get. So I'd still be more likely to land a quick combo with an air attack. Eventually I come across a character who does have an anti-air move, and the trick still works...usually once or twice. After that, I tend to get a shoryuken in places I don't want them. To this day I hate fighting Ken Masters.
But Capcom was nice enough to give me another means to attack. Chun Li was given a range move. Sure, it's a bit more complicated as it requires the half-circle roll as opposed to Ryu's hadoken, and when first introduced it was worse, requiring me to pull off a Sonic Boom(I hate charge moves because I prefer more spontaneity in a character, and charge moves tend towards being obvious), but it gave me a new option. Suddenly, I can take the long range approach to my battles. Ultimately this will throw the CPU for a loop at first, then eventually they'll start blocking or shooting back, and I'll have to do something else.
But this brings me to Mozgus' comment...the CPU isn't really that great in any game, and usually simple strategy changes will work. You may have to change, but it's not something very complex, as in switching from abusing air to a long range approach. But fighting games aren't about fighting the CPU. Sure, it can be fun, and it does help improve skills, especially if you have something specific you're attempting to learn when you go into an arcade mode. But the ultimate goal in a fighter is the face another human being, because that's where the competition really lies.
The biggest issue I have there is that people get emotional. Fighters are EXTREMELY competitive. Only a small few hold any form of co-op, and while it is pretty nifty with a friend, at the end of the day you'll likely face off against said friend. Your friend isn't going to be able to pull off Tiger Claw's every two seconds from different heights. His fingers will get sweaty and being to slip, or you'll pull something eventually that throws him off, and he'll get scared, then attempt a new strategy. So why does Sagat pelt you with projectiles constantly in SF2 Turbo?
Because it's the best way to learn how to cope with that strategy. As Mozgus said, he counters them for health points. Personally I take the time to learn to jump over them. Many games feature dodge maneuvers, or allow you to attempt your own projectiles to counter theirs. Heck your character may even feature a teleport. My suggestion would be to take the time to learn to use them. On each new opponent, study how the computer uses them because it's generally a direction a character is meant to be played in. Study their moves and learn them.
Because at the end of the day, the computer's just practice. Arcade is a glorified training mode. Sure, it's got lots of characters and usually a pretty cool ending. But it's still training. People are the real opponents.
Also for a note, cheap AI does not a good sparring partner make. And increased damage amounts and uber powerful or faster special moves doesn't either, because you will never actually face that...unless you're playing a game with unbalanced multiplayer, in which case I'm gonna tell you to play something better than Rise of the Robots.
I'll give an example. I abuse air attacks for combo starters. Why? Simple. A lot of players aren't competent at pulling off anti-air moves when needed, and in those situations the best counter against me is usually to do what I do. But a computer can pull off a special move without a problem. While anti-air is pretty much standard nowadays, it used to be something characters wouldn't get. So I'd still be more likely to land a quick combo with an air attack. Eventually I come across a character who does have an anti-air move, and the trick still works...usually once or twice. After that, I tend to get a shoryuken in places I don't want them. To this day I hate fighting Ken Masters.
But Capcom was nice enough to give me another means to attack. Chun Li was given a range move. Sure, it's a bit more complicated as it requires the half-circle roll as opposed to Ryu's hadoken, and when first introduced it was worse, requiring me to pull off a Sonic Boom(I hate charge moves because I prefer more spontaneity in a character, and charge moves tend towards being obvious), but it gave me a new option. Suddenly, I can take the long range approach to my battles. Ultimately this will throw the CPU for a loop at first, then eventually they'll start blocking or shooting back, and I'll have to do something else.
But this brings me to Mozgus' comment...the CPU isn't really that great in any game, and usually simple strategy changes will work. You may have to change, but it's not something very complex, as in switching from abusing air to a long range approach. But fighting games aren't about fighting the CPU. Sure, it can be fun, and it does help improve skills, especially if you have something specific you're attempting to learn when you go into an arcade mode. But the ultimate goal in a fighter is the face another human being, because that's where the competition really lies.
The biggest issue I have there is that people get emotional. Fighters are EXTREMELY competitive. Only a small few hold any form of co-op, and while it is pretty nifty with a friend, at the end of the day you'll likely face off against said friend. Your friend isn't going to be able to pull off Tiger Claw's every two seconds from different heights. His fingers will get sweaty and being to slip, or you'll pull something eventually that throws him off, and he'll get scared, then attempt a new strategy. So why does Sagat pelt you with projectiles constantly in SF2 Turbo?
Because it's the best way to learn how to cope with that strategy. As Mozgus said, he counters them for health points. Personally I take the time to learn to jump over them. Many games feature dodge maneuvers, or allow you to attempt your own projectiles to counter theirs. Heck your character may even feature a teleport. My suggestion would be to take the time to learn to use them. On each new opponent, study how the computer uses them because it's generally a direction a character is meant to be played in. Study their moves and learn them.
Because at the end of the day, the computer's just practice. Arcade is a glorified training mode. Sure, it's got lots of characters and usually a pretty cool ending. But it's still training. People are the real opponents.
Also for a note, cheap AI does not a good sparring partner make. And increased damage amounts and uber powerful or faster special moves doesn't either, because you will never actually face that...unless you're playing a game with unbalanced multiplayer, in which case I'm gonna tell you to play something better than Rise of the Robots.
Have you been drinking a bit? I love the post, but just curious.
I especially feel ya on the opponents getting all emotional. I am by no means a pro, but I often find myself letting my opponent win every now and then, just so that they will keep wanting to play. Kind of luring them in, I guess. There just seems to be such a shortage of people who are interested in playing fighters these days... I guess I am desperate!
Not like it used to be!
I am honestly thinking about putting an ad on craigs list... there has got to be others in my town! I am soooo sick of arcade modes!
I especially feel ya on the opponents getting all emotional. I am by no means a pro, but I often find myself letting my opponent win every now and then, just so that they will keep wanting to play. Kind of luring them in, I guess. There just seems to be such a shortage of people who are interested in playing fighters these days... I guess I am desperate!
Not like it used to be!
I am honestly thinking about putting an ad on craigs list... there has got to be others in my town! I am soooo sick of arcade modes!
Yeah, sorry...I've been thinking a lot about the theory behind fighters lately.
Yes. Theory. I'm gonna find a way to teach a class on this someday, I swear. Stand back folks as I attempt science...of Fighters!
I've been playing a lot lately, what with all the ones I've picked up, and I've been thinking about them...and watching my skills improve. The guy I met in my apartment complex that would stomp me in all SNK titles a month ago? I just spent an hour in KOF 11 with him. I lost 2 rounds out of 10, and only by the last hit in one of those losses. I'd say I've improved, if only because I've taken the time to think more on strategies. I've started learning what's effective, like while there is no air blocking in KOF, sweeps have some pretty nasty range, so I drop a character right out of their anti-air range and sweep them until they cry. Also...Kula is amazing. Seriously amazing. It's too bad she's a relatively recent addition, she's definitely a capable character.
But even before that, I played some Children of the Atom with him, and only lost 1 round out 5. And though he didn't realize it, I'd turned my handicap down so I had less health. I've begun setting up combinations of special moves in new ways, and it's really quite amazing how awesome the results can be. Follow Iceman's Arctic Attack with one of his big ice balls or an Ice Blast? Absolutely amazing.
As I keep saying, I love talking fighters. There's some real good stuff there. I've starting wondering how I'm going to apply a Library degree to them...
Yes. Theory. I'm gonna find a way to teach a class on this someday, I swear. Stand back folks as I attempt science...of Fighters!
I've been playing a lot lately, what with all the ones I've picked up, and I've been thinking about them...and watching my skills improve. The guy I met in my apartment complex that would stomp me in all SNK titles a month ago? I just spent an hour in KOF 11 with him. I lost 2 rounds out of 10, and only by the last hit in one of those losses. I'd say I've improved, if only because I've taken the time to think more on strategies. I've started learning what's effective, like while there is no air blocking in KOF, sweeps have some pretty nasty range, so I drop a character right out of their anti-air range and sweep them until they cry. Also...Kula is amazing. Seriously amazing. It's too bad she's a relatively recent addition, she's definitely a capable character.
But even before that, I played some Children of the Atom with him, and only lost 1 round out 5. And though he didn't realize it, I'd turned my handicap down so I had less health. I've begun setting up combinations of special moves in new ways, and it's really quite amazing how awesome the results can be. Follow Iceman's Arctic Attack with one of his big ice balls or an Ice Blast? Absolutely amazing.
As I keep saying, I love talking fighters. There's some real good stuff there. I've starting wondering how I'm going to apply a Library degree to them...