Brawlers and Beatemups
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Pullmyfinger
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by Pullmyfinger Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:03 pm

^^Sarcasm?

Ack: I think you are missing Power Moves
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Ack
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by Ack Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:55 pm

Ok, Power Moves is a definite need.

I'm glad nobody's arguing over King of the Monsters. I don't have to worry about picking those up.

But the real issue is Pit Fighter. I've watched a few videos now and I realize I had gotten the wrong impression from what I'd read before. I thought every match was played like the Grudge Match, where all you have to do is knock the opponent down 3 times. That's a bit more like a wrestling game. There's definitely more to it than that, but I'm still having issue with considering this a straight up fighter like so many of the other games I've gotten.

First, the large arenas. A faux-3D arena like this is a feature most commonly found in wrestling matches. Certainly, a few fighters have stages that somewhat resemble what was going on in Pit Fighter. The Fatal Fury games and Ballz 3D were really the closest, though Fatal Fury only had a second row in some of the stages that was just another level to fight on. Ballz 3D could swing the stage around, but they were flat and lifeless and spherical, unlike Pit Fighter's square arena.

Pit Fighter also included weapons being readily available from the crowd. This is another hallmark of a wrestling game, where folks grab chairs, tables, and whatever else to knock their opponents down.

Health system. Instead of a bar, you get a number. Once it reaches 0, you drop. This is exactly like a fighter, only with a different graphical representation. However, when you lose life in a match, it stays over to the next round, and you gain it back after so many rounds. That feels more like a wrestling game or a survival mode in a fighting game.

I guess we can all understand my hesitation to call Pit Fighter a straight-up fighter along the likes of Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, or Killer Instinct. It's definitely been influenced by the wrestling genre, but whether it qualifies as a wrestling game, a fighter, or something else is what we have to ask. Is it enough of a fighter to go in the collection with my other games? I really need the input of folks who've played, as I haven't had the influence. And look at it both from the perspective of its SNES title, and its arcade roots, as the SNES port is a good deal different. Is it a fighter, and does it belong in my collection?
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by nateup2 Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:13 pm

Question...

If we are going to consider Pit Fighter to be the same genre as Street Fighter... would we include smash brothers series? Is there one on SNES? Even if not, would we include games like that and power stone? I personally would say no to all, including Pit Fighter.
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Pullmyfinger
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by Pullmyfinger Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:27 pm

Well, we might not all agree if Pit Fighter is a brawler, fighter, beat em up, wrestling or arena fighter, but I'm pretty sure we all agree that its a terrible game, isn't that enough to avoid it?
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by Ack Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:41 pm

No, because I was considering taking these and making a "Worst fighters for SNES" list as well, so the rest of you can avoid it. There are some folks out there that liked Pit-Fighter in arcade, but the SNES port is a travesty. If they don't read it here, somebody might waste the five bucks and pick it up. And that five bucks could be better spent on a good game.
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by Doctor Fugue Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:06 am

I finally read this thread and I'll add a few thoughts (though I'm not sure why people are talking about the quality of these games...it's a LIST not a beauty contest).

I'm not a Nintendo guy and haven't played any of these ports...but I did play them in the arcades back in the day.

Wrestling games to me are a sub-genre of fighting...that is to say any combat (hand-to-hand, swords, lasers) between two or more semi-equal characters where the sole purpose is to defeat your opponent by depleting their health constitutes a fighting game (unlike scrolling beat-em-ups where the human player is MUCH more powerful than most of the enemies...Streets of Rage is not a fair fight, it's a massacre).

I would vote for including King of the Monsters. Yes it has pinning and grappling, but I still think it plays like a fighter. You progress in the single-player game by defeating opponent after opponent and beat the game after a final fight. I even think the arcade game WWF Superstars is a fighting game...yes it is obviously wrestling, but I think wrestling is a kind of fighting.

King of the Monsters 2 is another matter. The arcade version has side-scrolling bits in between the main fights. Does this change its genre? I would say no, simply because it feels like a fighter to me, with some bonus stuff put in for variety. The Genesis port, which I have played, takes out these side-scrolling parts altogether (and is quite superior because of gameplay tweaks). I just looked up the SNES port, and it seems to be more like the arcade version which has the side-scrolling stuff. I say include both KotM games.

Pit Fighter, for me, there should be no question. Pit FIGHTER. I approached it in the arcades the same way I did as Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. Slightly different mechanics, but still a fight until someone stays down.

I love completion lists, sorry I can't be more help because I have almost no experience with an SNES (I refused to be friends with Nintendo people back then). :D
"Your vessel, your beginning. All that you knew...is gone." - The Guardian of Forever
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racketboy
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by racketboy Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:51 pm

Ack wrote:Ok, Power Moves is a definite need.

I'm glad nobody's arguing over King of the Monsters. I don't have to worry about picking those up.

But the real issue is Pit Fighter. I've watched a few videos now and I realize I had gotten the wrong impression from what I'd read before. I thought every match was played like the Grudge Match, where all you have to do is knock the opponent down 3 times. That's a bit more like a wrestling game. There's definitely more to it than that, but I'm still having issue with considering this a straight up fighter like so many of the other games I've gotten.

First, the large arenas. A faux-3D arena like this is a feature most commonly found in wrestling matches. Certainly, a few fighters have stages that somewhat resemble what was going on in Pit Fighter. The Fatal Fury games and Ballz 3D were really the closest, though Fatal Fury only had a second row in some of the stages that was just another level to fight on. Ballz 3D could swing the stage around, but they were flat and lifeless and spherical, unlike Pit Fighter's square arena.

Pit Fighter also included weapons being readily available from the crowd. This is another hallmark of a wrestling game, where folks grab chairs, tables, and whatever else to knock their opponents down.

Health system. Instead of a bar, you get a number. Once it reaches 0, you drop. This is exactly like a fighter, only with a different graphical representation. However, when you lose life in a match, it stays over to the next round, and you gain it back after so many rounds. That feels more like a wrestling game or a survival mode in a fighting game.

I guess we can all understand my hesitation to call Pit Fighter a straight-up fighter along the likes of Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, or Killer Instinct. It's definitely been influenced by the wrestling genre, but whether it qualifies as a wrestling game, a fighter, or something else is what we have to ask. Is it enough of a fighter to go in the collection with my other games? I really need the input of folks who've played, as I haven't had the influence. And look at it both from the perspective of its SNES title, and its arcade roots, as the SNES port is a good deal different. Is it a fighter, and does it belong in my collection?


I guess I was the only one to enjoy King of Monsters. I used to play it on an Neo-Geo MVS all the time.
I always considered it a fighter, but if you think about it, it's more of wrestling game as you are in a ring setup
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Ack
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by Ack Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:16 pm

Well, seems like folks are voting for Pit-Fighter and King of the Monsters 1 and 2 to be put in.

...yeah, why not? They're often listed as fighters anyway. They're all pretty cheap, costing at most five bucks(and that's with shipping). Once I've got the money, I'll look up Pit-fighter and KotM 1 and 2.

On a side note, Doctor Fugue's PIT FIGHTER bit wins. In an Epic way.
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Ack
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by Ack Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:27 pm

Well, finished my first article for Racketboy, and it got posted today. While the list gets mentioned, the article is a bunch of recommendations for American SNES fans. I tried to mention games that were quality as well as a little obscure, though a few games that are well known ended up on the list.

Got a few other ideas for articles on the subject, though I doubt you guys are gonna wanna listen to me talk Fighters too often...heheh.

Here, check it out. Read the article.
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ott0bot
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by ott0bot Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:40 pm

Ack wrote:Well, finished my first article for Racketboy, and it got posted today. While the list gets mentioned, the article is a bunch of recommendations for American SNES fans. I tried to mention games that were quality as well as a little obscure, though a few games that are well known ended up on the list.

Got a few other ideas for articles on the subject, though I doubt you guys are gonna wanna listen to me talk Fighters too often...heheh.

Here, check it out. Read the article.


Nice article man. I think you gave fair and realistic critiques.
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