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Ack
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by Ack Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:08 pm

marurun wrote:But for fighting games, all the 16-bit consoles were losers. The Saturn and Playstation changed all of that.


I disagree. There are some very interesting fighting games available on consoles during the 16-bit era. Look up Gundam Wing: Endless Duel, the Street Fighter Alpha 2 SNES port, and Yū Yū Hakusho: Makyō Tōitsusen. These are just three examples of well done fighting games appearing on home consoles during that era.
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by marurun Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:56 pm

Ack wrote:
marurun wrote:But for fighting games, all the 16-bit consoles were losers. The Saturn and Playstation changed all of that.


I disagree. There are some very interesting fighting games available on consoles during the 16-bit era. Look up Gundam Wing: Endless Duel, the Street Fighter Alpha 2 SNES port, and Yū Yū Hakusho: Makyō Tōitsusen. These are just three examples of well done fighting games appearing on home consoles during that era.


You are correct. The 16-bit era did have some good titles, of course, but it was still the early days of home fighting games, and the PS1 and Saturn are where the genre truly matured as far as console fighters were concerned.
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by prfsnl_gmr Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:40 pm

First, I don't know why there is a debate here...The SNES killed it with regard to fighters during the 16-bit era. As someone who had both systems when they were in their prime, I can assure you that the Genesis ports of all popular fighting games were generally considered inferior. Also, you had to buy a non-standard controller to obtian a quality playing experience for many fighting games on the Genesis, which was another drawback.

Also, while the fighting genre certainly matured during the 32-bit era, the genre was at the height of its popularity during the 16-bit era.
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by AppleQueso Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:44 pm

prfsnl_gmr wrote:As someone who had both systems when they were in their prime, I can assure you that the Genesis ports of all popular fighting games were generally considered inferior.


I raise you Samurai Shodown. I greatly preferred the Genesis version.
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by pierrot Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:45 pm

I don't understand why some are so quick to dismiss the 32X and Sega CD from the Genesis library. It's not as if we consider Starfox, or Yoshi's Island as somehow separate from the SNES library just because they have extra chipsets to offload the taxes of extra graphical processing. Even with the PC Engine, it's pretty commonplace that the games meant for the CD attachment are considered when looking at the PC Engine itself. Granted, the thread title refers to "16-bit fighters," so I realize the 32X may not fit in to the discussion from a number of bits perspective. (Which is somewhat of a shame considering MK II, Virtua Fighter, and Primal Rage.)

Anyway, the Sega CD still brings some more good options in Fatal Fury Special, Eternal Champions, and Mortal Kombat.

I'm not much of a fan of a lot of the fighting games on 16-bit consoles, though. I agree that there's not really a winner, just a bunch of losers. In terms of fighters that I would actually want to sit around and play on the 16-bit hardware, instead of playing a better fifth-gen port of, or emulated in MAME, I think the SNES probably wins. Just with Power Rangers the Fighting Edition, Gundam Wing Endless Duel, and the port of TMNT Tournament Fighters, I don't think I can really match those on the Genesis. There's Yu Yu Hakusho, DBZ Buyuu Retsuden, and Eternal Champions, but I don't really feel that they're as good. I don't know enough about the PC Engine library to comment on its offerings, though.
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by Ack Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:11 pm

pierrot wrote:I don't understand why some are so quick to dismiss the 32X and Sega CD from the Genesis library. It's not as if we consider Starfox, or Yoshi's Island as somehow separate from the SNES library just because they have extra chipsets to offload the taxes of extra graphical processing. Even with the PC Engine, it's pretty commonplace that the games meant for the CD attachment are considered when looking at the PC Engine itself. Granted, the thread title refers to "16-bit fighters," so I realize the 32X may not fit in to the discussion from a number of bits perspective. (Which is somewhat of a shame considering MK II, Virtua Fighter, and Primal Rage.)


Well, you partially answered your own question: the 32X isn't a 16-bit system. But generally we try to keep it to the base systems, not including any peripherals that had to be purchased separately. That's the big difference between things like the Sega CD and the chips used in certain SNES games: those were integrated into the game and required no money to be spent on expensive hardware or add ons. If we did include these devices, we'd also have to start talking about Satellaview games or the expanded library of the Super Game Boy.
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by pierrot Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:51 am

The initial statement was more a generality than specific to this topic, but I don't see why Satellaview games would be considered a separate library akin to that of a separate console. Again, it's rare that anyone really qualifies PC Engine CD games as entirely separate from the entirety of the PC Engine library. (For a while, I didn't even realize that the Super Grafx was a separate console, even.) Somehow, this is commonplace for Sega CD and 32X games, though, and a lot of times I think it feels like arbitrarily lessening the significance of the Trio's library. I certainly wouldn't separate the 64DD library either: mainly because the games are virtually unplayable without the base console, and are built with that initial architecture in mind.
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by nightrnr Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:55 am

Some people see the Genesis 6-button controller in a negative light: as in it's bad that you had to buy something extra to fully enjoy the fighting games. I respectfully disagree and would further add that the Sega fighting controllers had a more appropriate layout for most of the good fighting games (not to mention the best D-pad ever).

Good control has always been a major requirement for me in fighting games. So I have to put both systems about even. Sega had the control, SNES had the graphics and selection.
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by prfsnl_gmr Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:04 am

AppleQueso wrote:
prfsnl_gmr wrote:As someone who had both systems when they were in their prime, I can assure you that the Genesis ports of all popular fighting games were generally considered inferior.


I raise you Samurai Shodown. I greatly preferred the Genesis version.


I'll see your Samurai Shodown and raise you Art of Fighting, Fatal Fury, Fatal Fury 2, Mortal Kombat II, Mortal Kombat 3, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, Primal Rage, TMNT: Tournament Fighters, Super Street Fighter II, and World Heroes, all of which were superior on the SNES. (I will admit that Ballz 3D and Shaq Fu are equally awesome on both consoles, however.)

I will also throw in Fatal Fury Special, Fighter's History, Killer Instinct, MMPR: Fighting Edition, Power Instinct, Street Fighter II, Street Fighter II Turbo Hyper Fighting, Street Fighter Alpha 2, and World Heroes 2...none of which made it to the Genesis. (OK...OK...you got Eternal Champions and Time Killers...but the other Genesis exclusives...Fighting Masters, Slaughter Sport, Virtua Fighter 2, etc...uuuggghhh...)

Also, the Genesis d-pad is not that great. I very much prefer the SNES d-pad for fighting games. (While it will blister your thumb after a while, it is much more accurate in my opinion.)

It is time to give this one up. The Gensis has the SNES beat, hands down, when it comes to shmups. It simply cannot compete with the SNES's fighters, however. (A more interesting thread would ask which system has the best RPGs and platformers.)
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Re: The platform for 16-bit fighters

by AppleQueso Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:19 am

:lol:

I was just saying that the Genesis SamSho was better than its SNES counterpart. Didn't say anything about the fighter library as a whole. :)
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