What are your opinions/thoughts on Combo Videos?

[indecks]

I'm just totally curious, here. I personally don't like combo vids because I think they're lame. Why do I think they're lame? Because 99.9999% of the time, the vids are made using a practice mode or a non moving opponent. That irks me, and to me that's is the equivalent of a fake. Maybe I'm the only one that feels that way, but I just hate when you see someone playing a game and tearing up these 20 hit combos that cancel into supers, but the combo is started by the opponent just sitting there, or having the game in practice mode.

That would never happen, y'know? Those vids all rely on the fact that the character being comboed just sits there. Trying that on another player who is just as good probably wouldn't let it happen. The opponent would do something to get out of it, do a combo breaker in Killer Instinct, a dodge, a jump out of the way, etc. I'd like to see people pull off that crazy combo in Street Fighter II without juggling, while playing a live opponent. I rarely ever see that. I know combo vids are supposed to show 'what you can do' with that character, but in reality it probably wont ever happen against a real opponent. Does that make sense?

[indecks]

oops, sorry to whoever needed to move this! Forgot about the fighter section. I don't usually go out of the everything else area.

[Dylan]

You have to remember, many combo videos are just proof of concept.

Besides that, I don't agree on some points. An important factor is how the combo was started in the first place; was it off of a light attack? Was it off of a counter hit or punish? Or was it off of something unwieldly like a raw special or heavy attack? If you can start a full combo off of something practical, I consider it valid. In addition to that once you start a combo it often doesn't matter how skilled your opponent is, most games don't have bursts or breakers so it's not like they're getting out of it.

Generally the thing that I find silly about some combo videos is when the combos they demonstrate are impractical. When I see somebody burn their entire super meter on one overlong combo, despite the fact that the damage scaling is eating huge amounts of the damage, I can't help but roll my eyes. It's like in SFIV when somebody does a huge combo and then finishes it off with an ultra that adds like 30 extra damage.

[EvilRyu2099]

Usually combo videos just shows what you can do within a game engine.. But if you actually want to learn BnBs that can be used during a fight, I suggest you read up a wiki or in forums of said game to learn the mechanics and character you are deciding to play with.. Usually a fighting game will have a dedicated forum with character pages discussing what that said character can and can't do, the strength and weaknesses and finally the various combos in certain situations.. It's always good to do the trials and use training mode to practice certain combos that will actually work in a given match on hitconfirm.. I think another thing always lost is the fact that movement plays a huge part in the majority of fighters... You can learn all the combos in the world but it may get you nowhere if you don't learn the movement such as the various jumps and/or airdashes and jump cancels that can help you get that hitconfirm in any given situation..

[indecks]

You have to remember, many combo videos are just proof of concept.

Besides that, I don't agree on some points. An important factor is how the combo was started in the first place; was it off of a light attack? Was it off of a counter hit or punish? Or was it off of something unwieldly like a raw special or heavy attack? If you can start a full combo off of something practical, I consider it valid. In addition to that once you start a combo it often doesn't matter how skilled your opponent is, most games don't have bursts or breakers so it's not like they're getting out of it.

Generally the thing that I find silly about some combo videos is when the combos they demonstrate are impractical. When I see somebody burn their entire super meter on one overlong combo, despite the fact that the damage scaling is eating huge amounts of the damage, I can't help but roll my eyes. It's like in SFIV when somebody does a huge combo and then finishes it off with an ultra that adds like 30 extra damage.

Well, actually I think we agree on how a combo is started affecting it's validity. I think a combo can be started in no particular manner. A jump in light punch, or a deep kick, a punish like you mentioned, a parry, etc. I'm not denying a combo's validity in that way.

I understand about proof of concept, but there's no 'practical application' of the concept. That's what bugs me. Great, so you can do this 15 hit combo in the corner ending with a flashy Ultra that does little damage, but it would rarely -if ever- work in a real world fight (i.e. a competition) because your opponent would block, evade, parry, etc.

The opponent being brutalized doesn't react. Maybe the combo's beginning relies on the opponent just standing there like a dimwit. To me that's like playing Duck Hunt with the Zapper 2 inches away from the screen. Yeah you're hitting all of them, but are you really a good shot?

I think a combo is invalid if it requires the opponents complete and total inaction to even exist. There's just no point. You could never get to hit #2 if the opponent is doing anything, be it blocking, attacking, jumping, or even squatting.

[fastbilly1]

I consider them like Tool Assisted runs. They are neat that is doable in game, but does nothing for me.

Granted Im not a huge fighting game fan, but I am far more interested in a game if it is a video of two people playing with a grasp of how to play.

[Dylan]

I think a combo is invalid if it requires the opponents complete and total inaction to even exist. There's just no point. You could never get to hit #2 if the opponent is doing anything, be it blocking, attacking, jumping, or even squatting.

I think this is the point that we disagree on. I don't feel like I watch many combo videos and see this. If you start a combo in a practical way, it doesn't matter if your opponent is standing still, recovering, or just flat out ate a mixup. It's totally possible to start a combo off of any of the things that you mentioned. If they're blocking, mix them up with a low attack or throw. If they're attacking, you can opt for a safe counter hit or get them on recovery. If you catch them jumping in some games you go straight into combo, in others they're hitting the ground facing the threat of a meaty attack or other mixup. Squatting opponents can be mixed up with overheads or throws, etc. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that just because you're playing the game doesn't mean that you're avoiding all possible combos. If you could play perfect defense the pace of the game would be ruined.

[Gamerforlife]

Combo videos impress me more in beat 'em up games because there is no training mode and you're pulling off combos on non passive opponents, often while surrounded by other enemies that can interrupt you. Pulling off combos in 1 on 1 fighting games is nothing by comparison. Here's some good combo vids off youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgZTIqr4OA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iPeSILEnx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFRyZbPfwTQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1srcfjgbp-E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7KNBXq0kzU

[indecks]

I think this is the point that we disagree on. I don't feel like I watch many combo videos and see this. If you start a combo in a practical way, it doesn't matter if your opponent is standing still, recovering, or just flat out ate a mixup. It's totally possible to start a combo off of any of the things that you mentioned. If they're blocking, mix them up with a low attack or throw. If they're attacking, you can opt for a safe counter hit or get them on recovery. If you catch them jumping in some games you go straight into combo, in others they're hitting the ground facing the threat of a meaty attack or other mixup. Squatting opponents can be mixed up with overheads or throws, etc. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that just because you're playing the game doesn't mean that you're avoiding all possible combos. If you could play perfect defense the pace of the game would be ruined.

Man... maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying... I don't mean to argue but I think I'm confused lol! I'm not saying that it's a combo ONLY if you start it with anything other than a single move. I agree that a combo can be a combo if it's a punch, fireball, jab. Or a Jab, Jab, Jab, and all kinds of permutations of moves and hits. Those are all combos.

I'm saying that if you go into practice mode and the 'dummy' that you're attacking is just sitting there NOT blocking, NOT jumping, NOT reacting, and you pull off this 'amazing' combo - it's pointless, because if the 'dummy' DID react, be it a jump, kick, parry, block, crouch, whatever - then the 'dummy' has a chance to stop/evade the combo. That's what would happen in a 'real' bout against another player.

I'm not saying the combo doesn't count if the person being attacked doesn't respond. When I first started to play Killer Instinct at the arcades I could never pull off Combo Breakers. That doesn't mean that my opponent's combos didn't count. I just couldn't pull them off, that was my fault.

But I am saying that pulling off a crazy set of hits and juggles in a practice mode isnt that impressive because like someone else mentioned, its almost like a tool assisted speed run. They remove any chance of failure with the combo. To me, that's not really pulling off anything impressive. It'd be more impressive if they pulled off that same huge combo against either a live opponent, or the games AI when it's on ultra-hard. You don't give a boxer accolades for beating up a punching bag in the gym. He wins the title and accolades because he beat the snot out of another living competitor. Naw'mean?

[Dylan]

But I am saying that pulling off a crazy set of hits and juggles in a practice mode isnt that impressive because like someone else mentioned, its almost like a tool assisted speed run. They remove any chance of failure with the combo. To me, that's not really pulling off anything impressive. It'd be more impressive if they pulled off that same huge combo against either a live opponent, or the games AI when it's on ultra-hard. You don't give a boxer accolades for beating up a punching bag in the gym. He wins the title and accolades because he beat the snot out of another living competitor. Naw'mean?

Okay, I at least understand what exactly you're talking about now. I will say that I think you're kind of missing the point of combo videos, though. They're not usually made to demonstrate the skill of the player creating them. This goes back to what I meant about proof of concept, they're designed to showcase the capabilities and attributes of a given character (or team). Combo videos are generally by their nature experimental and the reason they're mostly done in training mode is because it's a controlled environment. Overall I would say that combo videos are much less "look at me" and much more "look at what can be done".