Discussion of game backup, reproduction, burning, and ripping. Covers ROM backup, cartridge reproduction, optical disc ripping, burning, and storage. Focus on archival purposes and not deceptive selling.
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Sarge
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Turbo Duo CD-R burning

by Sarge Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:32 am

So, in the process of trying stuff out, I discovered that the Duo has trouble with at least one game, Ys III, when burned to CD-R. The rips floating around are greater than 650MB/74 minutes, and it causes the laser to lock up at the end of the track. I talked with the seller, and he helped me work through how to unstick it. But I'm still curious, for those of you that own a Duo: Is there any way to play these games via CD-R? Alternative rips out there? Or is this just a limitation that I'm going to have to deal with?

Thanks, y'all. Learning new stuff every day, apparently. :P

EDIT: Apparently the game is smaller when burned to disc, so I was mistaken on this front.
Last edited by Sarge on Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Exhuminator
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Re: Turbo Duo and game rips over 650MB

by Exhuminator Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:54 am

I'm not cool enough to own a Turbo Duo, but I did a little research. I found a thread talking about this stuff:

https://assemblergames.com/threads/prob ... mes.49334/

Specifically this post:

"The original Duo's are fussy about CD-Rs. I have 3 different Duo's give me the 'parked' laser issue when using really cheap CD-Rs. That's when the laser module gets stuck all the way on the right side and can't return back. You have to manually spin the shaft in order to get it unstuck. It's mostly likely what happened to Tats' friends system.

My SuperCDROM^2 plays anything that I throw at it. Even ~really~ crap CD-Rs. Never had a problem. Been playing CD-Rs on it for years now. I've heard that the Duo-R/RX models are the same as the SuperCDROM^2 models; they handle CD-Rs quite well.

The TGCD and original brief case model PCECD units, are finicky with CD-Rs. While I haven't seen them die, I have seen them have a hard time with a lot of CD-Rs.

Then there are issues with some burning apps not burning the data track in the correct mode (which is insane!). Even though the CUE sheet specifically stated mode1/2048 (cooked) format, the app burned it as Mode2 form (I forget which form). The Duo unit actually read this! But it really choked on reading these. IIRC, some version of Nero did this. Though it burned the image fine, if the source was a bin/cue. Stupid burning apps. Can't trust 'em. It's always important to verify your setup (burn a PCE CD at least once and analyze the disc to make sure the burner/software setup is burning correctly per the CUE sheet). "


I don't know what CD-R media you are using, but I strongly suggest using these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00065DGYQ/

I recommend using IMGBURN to burn the images:

http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download

And burn the images no faster than 4x speed, preferably even slower. You may have to use an old external USB burner to reach a burning speed that low, as many modern disc drives won't burn that slowly.

Also I suggest this image of Ys III, it's the one I beat the game with:

http://www.theisozone.com/downloads/ret ... -turbo-cd/

If you're already doing all that, and it's still not working... I DON'T KNOW MAN :x
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Sarge
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Re: Turbo Duo and game rips over 650MB

by Sarge Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:37 pm

I've got everything covered except being able to burn at 4x (I'm at 8x minimum with my burner), and the media (I've only got Memorex stuff right now). ImgBurn has been my go-to ISO burner for a while now. I'm going to look at getting some better media for sure; that may well still be the problem. I'd also like to find some 650MB discs, just to see if that makes a difference. Not convinced it will, though. I've also read that folks would mount the image via Daemon Tools and do a direct copy from the virtual drive. I need some decent software for that, though; turns out I don't have very good disc-to-disc software right now. CDBurnerXP doesn't read a few sectors when copying, for example. I used to use CloneCD for that kind of stuff, so I might actually look at getting a license for it if it's not too expensive.

I guess I just didn't realize how picky the Duo was about these things before I got into it. It seems closer to the PSX side of the spectrum as opposed to the pretty brain-dead Sega CD/Saturn side of things. I'm just happy that it's a known issue, and not the system blowing up on me. That would have sucked. I was getting ready to return it, but the seller was awesome and walked me through everything. So if you want to buy Duo stuff, turbografxfan is your man on eBay.
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Re: Turbo Duo and game rips over 650MB

by marurun Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:51 pm

The PC Engine is actually a VERY simple device, but it was designed before any CD media larger than 650 MB was in service. Every CD back then capped at 650 MB, as was the spec. The drive isn't designed to read or function outside of that.
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Sarge
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Re: Turbo Duo and game rips over 650MB

by Sarge Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:33 pm

Ended up ordering some of the JVC Taiyo Yuden discs, apparently some of the stock left from Japan. I've read that some of the newer CMC Pro stuff may not be quite as high quality.

I actually think that my burns are not great. I believe it's barfing on the outer edge. Xak III has seek issues where I believe it's seeking to the outside, failing, and resetting to the inner track. Could be wrong, but seems reasonable.
Hardcore Retro Gaming - Talk about games ten years old or older!
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Re: Turbo Duo and game rips over 650MB

by Exhuminator Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:13 pm

Sarge wrote:Ended up ordering some of the JVC Taiyo Yuden discs, apparently some of the stock left from Japan. I've read that some of the newer CMC Pro stuff may not be quite as high quality.


If you ever have questions about the integrity of a disc manufacture, check out VSO Inspector:

http://www.vso-software.fr/products/ins ... pector.php

It can scan the Media ID (manufacturer key and/or disc model #), you can also do a media analysis. Very useful tool.

Sarge wrote:I actualy think that my burns are not great. I believe it's barfing on the outer edge.


This is what I'm suspecting. Better media (nothing beats legit Taiyo Yuden honestly) and slower burns should help.

Also, when you burn with IMGBURN, you can use the Mode -> Verify -> Source (disc in drive) -> Verify Against Image File tool to check the burn integrity. If you're not already doing that, it's worth doing.
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Re: Turbo Duo and game rips over 650MB

by Sarge Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:42 pm

I have no doubt the burn will work in a PC drive. It's just the Duo, much like a PSX; finicky to some degree. I also found out the Duo-R doesn't seem to have that problem. If it bugs me too much I could always resell this one and get one of those.

Edit: Definitely the burn. Found my old Duo burns and Xak III works like a champ. Gonna find a different burner, see if it's that while I wait for the better discs.
Hardcore Retro Gaming - Talk about games ten years old or older!
“History isn't just the story of bad people doing bad things. It's quite as much a story of people trying to do good things. But somehow, something goes wrong.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Sarge
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Re: Turbo Duo and game rips over 650MB

by Sarge Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:16 pm

Woo! Looks like the TY discs worked, after I produced four coasters... looks like my test game was a bad rip. I was using Xak III, and comparing the behavior to one of my older burns. It didn't do any better than the Memorex discs, so I thought I might have gotten a bad batch of TYs. But for kicks and giggles, I burned the problematic game, Ys III, and it worked like a charm, after sled-locking the laser on all my previous attempts. So it looks like I'm in business!
Hardcore Retro Gaming - Talk about games ten years old or older!
“History isn't just the story of bad people doing bad things. It's quite as much a story of people trying to do good things. But somehow, something goes wrong.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Re: Turbo Duo and game rips over 650MB

by BoneSnapDeez Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:37 pm

Xak? Ys? You want authentic copies of those glorious games in your collection, surely!
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Re: Turbo Duo and game rips over 650MB

by Exhuminator Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:54 pm

Sarge wrote:Looks like the TY discs worked / I burned the problematic game, Ys III, and it worked like a charm / it looks like I'm in business!


Told you so bro. :wink: Looking forward to copious reviews of TGCD/PCECD gems.
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