Guides to jumpstart your Retrogaming lifestyle
User avatar
CRTGAMER
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 11933
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:59 am
Location: Southern California

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by CRTGAMER Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:16 pm

Just personally confirmed Dreamcast lightgun on VGA computer monitors.

As expected on the LCD VGA monitor no luck.

However on the CRT VGA monitor the Lightgun works great!

SEE FIRST PAGE FOR THE FULL READ ..................


Image
Hyundai CRT 17" Computer Monitor V773



Image
Sony LCD 17" Computer Monitor SDM-HX73
Attachments
inside-of-battery.gif
inside-of-battery.gif (10.33 KiB) Viewed 3235 times
crt-vs-lcd.gif
crt-vs-lcd.gif (42.3 KiB) Viewed 3236 times
Last edited by CRTGAMER on Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image
CRT vs LCD - Hardware Mods - HDAdvance - Custom Controllers - Game Storage - Wii Gamecube and other Guides:
CRTGAMER Guides in Board Guides Index: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1109425#p1109425

Image
Image
User avatar
CRTGAMER
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 11933
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:59 am
Location: Southern California

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by CRTGAMER Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:22 pm

I just received the Sony AV Adaptor #SCPH-1160. Though it states to work only on the PS1 model #SCPH-5501 the AV adaptor works fine with PS2 and add on Component cables. However with the 120hz CRT TV same results of Guncon 2 Lightgun tracking problem. Basically same tracking issue as in hooking Lightgun cable up to green y Component lead.

See first page for full in depth article.

This link shows Guncon AV Adaptor hookup, Component can easily be subsituted.:
http://www.bandainamcogames.co.jp/cs/li ... n/bce.html

Image
Image
CRT vs LCD - Hardware Mods - HDAdvance - Custom Controllers - Game Storage - Wii Gamecube and other Guides:
CRTGAMER Guides in Board Guides Index: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1109425#p1109425

Image
Image
User avatar
wip3outguy7
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 2805
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Austin

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by wip3outguy7 Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:45 am

Ok, tested out the Guncon 2 on my Samsung HD CRT and it does not work.

A little about the TV:
This is one of the oddest TVs I have owned. It is a 27" Samsung Slim Fit HD CRT model no. TX-R2779H. I purchased it in late 2005. The tube is the old standard size and ratio of 4:3. It looks like it was developed in that short time when TV manufactures weren't sure if 16:9 or LCD/Plasma was going to take off. The letterbox force 16:9 when viewing HD content 720i/p or higher. The picture, though small, is beautiful in 1080i (it will not display 1080 Progressive).

The refresh rate is actually NOT 100hz. It is still a standard 60hz display - another oddity.

The processor in the TV is pretty sluggish. Picture lag is nearly 1/3 a second when upscaling SD signals through S-Video, Composite and even non-HD Component. I may be getting old but I'm still an excellent judge of picture lag. Even the sound processor is faster, making speech and picture rarely match up when watching SD content. When playing things in HD, the TV completely transforms and the lag vanishes almost completely - making games like King of Fighter 98 UM just as playable in Progressive scan as they are in SD on my old Phillips SD CRT.

When playing games through an SD signal the lag is not only some of the worst but motion and image transition is a joke. Still images look great but when things start moving the image is as bad as an old Gameboy display.

As stated; the Guncon 2 does not work, even in Progressive mode. In SD mode, the Guncon 2 does not register on screen at all. When in Progressive the Guncon registers but just barely. The cursor jumps back and forth from left to right spastically as the the gun desperately tries to keep up.

I think this behavior is caused by one of two things:

-The processor on the TV is just too damned slow to keep up with the Composite output going into the gun from the Sony AV adapter hooked into the back of the PS2.

-Looking closely at the tube reveals that the scan lines run vertically instead of horizontally as they would on a typical CRT. This means the screen is refreshing from right to left or left to right. It has to be playing hell with the Guncon 2's sensor and would definitely explain why the cursor jumps rapidly from left to right.

All-in-all, the TX-R2779H displays a very clean picture but it makes a very poor gaming TV.
... and it doesn't work with light guns.
User avatar
Mod_Man_Extreme
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 6847
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:05 am
Location: Statesville, North Carolina

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by Mod_Man_Extreme Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:49 am

wip3outguy7 wrote:Ok, tested out the Guncon 2 on my Samsung HD CRT and it does not work.

A little about the TV:
This is one of the oddest TVs I have owned. It is a 27" Samsung Slim Fit HD CRT model no. TX-R2779H. I purchased it in late 2005. The tube is the old standard size and ratio of 4:3. It looks like it was developed in that short time when TV manufactures weren't sure if 16:9 or LCD/Plasma was going to take off. The letterbox force 16:9 when viewing HD content 720i/p or higher. The picture, though small, is beautiful in 1080i (it will not display 1080 Progressive).

The refresh rate is actually NOT 100hz. It is still a standard 60hz display - another oddity.

The processor in the TV is pretty sluggish. Picture lag is nearly 1/3 a second when upscaling SD signals through S-Video, Composite and even non-HD Component. I may be getting old but I'm still an excellent judge of picture lag. Even the sound processor is faster, making speech and picture rarely match up when watching SD content. When playing things in HD, the TV completely transforms and the lag vanishes almost completely - making games like King of Fighter 98 UM just as playable in Progressive scan as they are in SD on my old Phillips SD CRT.

When playing games through an SD signal the lag is not only some of the worst but motion and image transition is a joke. Still images look great but when things start moving the image is as bad as an old Gameboy display.

As stated; the Guncon 2 does not work, even in Progressive mode. In SD mode, the Guncon 2 does not register on screen at all. When in Progressive the Guncon registers but just barely. The cursor jumps back and forth from left to right spastically as the the gun desperately tries to keep up.

I think this behavior is caused by one of two things:

-The processor on the TV is just too damned slow to keep up with the Composite output going into the gun from the Sony AV adapter hooked into the back of the PS2.

-Looking closely at the tube reveals that the scan lines run vertically instead of horizontally as they would on a typical CRT. This means the screen is refreshing from right to left or left to right. It has to be playing hell with the Guncon 2's sensor and would definitely explain why the cursor jumps rapidly from left to right.

All-in-all, the TX-R2779H displays a very clean picture but it makes a very poor gaming TV.
... and it doesn't work with light guns.

Just one quick question, was the PS2 hooked up via Component?
My Consoles:
Genesis - Nomad - SegaCD - GameGear - Sega Saturn - Dreamcast - NES - SNES - N64 - Gamecube - Wii - Playstation - PSone & LCD - PS2 - PS3 - Xbox - 3DS

Niode wrote:Send him a dodgy cheque. Make it out to Scammy McScammerson.


Check out my sale thread below, NeoGeo MVS carts & Arcade gear wanted!:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=11366
User avatar
wip3outguy7
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 2805
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Austin

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by wip3outguy7 Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:51 am

Mod_Man_Extreme wrote:Just one quick question, was the PS2 hooked up via Component?

Yes

Video out was through the Sony AV adapter and into a Component cable. The Guncon 2 video cable was connected through the Sony AV adapter.
User avatar
CRTGAMER
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 11933
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:59 am
Location: Southern California

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by CRTGAMER Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:12 am

Which Component cable did you plug that Guncon 2 yellow Tee into?
Try running yellow tee into the green y connector.
See first page for all different options.

With a 60hz TV should work, unusual that scan lines are vertical. I suspect your TV might be 480i?

My Sony CRT HD is also square 4:3 design far as I can tell from Sony sight it is 120hz not 100hz something to do with proprietary DCR CineMotion. So no lightgun working as of yet.

A note about screen resolution:
Even though Guncon has 480p option I don't believe the game is in 480p mode cause you don't see screen switch resolutions even when holding Triangle and X at startup.

Also only PS2 480p Guncon 2 game (at least shown on Wiki) is Vampire nights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pl ... HD_support
Gamestop has them very cheap: $4.99

Did the 2 point calibration work?

Man setting up a lightgun is getting to be like installing all the different drivers and updates on the PC.
Image
CRT vs LCD - Hardware Mods - HDAdvance - Custom Controllers - Game Storage - Wii Gamecube and other Guides:
CRTGAMER Guides in Board Guides Index: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1109425#p1109425

Image
Image
User avatar
wip3outguy7
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 2805
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Austin

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by wip3outguy7 Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:26 am

I didn't think to try the green cable into the T Composite connector. I was unaware this actually worked. I will test that out when I have some spare time again.

As far as I understand, the TV supports 480i/p, 720i/p and 1080i.

Yes, I tried holding X and triangle at startup for Time Crisis 3 but there is no Progressive mode. I had read there wasn't but I wanted to be sure. I passed on buying Vampire Night 2 weeks ago and a few days later decided I wanted it... but then I couldn't find it. LOL

The 2 point calibration does work. Aim off screen and hold the C button and pull the trigger. Though it only appears to work in SD mode. Switching into 2 point mode disables Progressive mode. However, I did try 2 point mode on my standard def Phillips CRT. It took a few tries to get the sights to line up just right but when it did the gun was arcade cab accurate.
User avatar
CRTGAMER
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 11933
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:59 am
Location: Southern California

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by CRTGAMER Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:45 pm

wip3outguy7 wrote:I didn't think to try the green cable into the T Composite connector. I was unaware this actually worked. I will test that out when I have some spare time again.

As far as I understand, the TV supports 480i/p, 720i/p and 1080i.

Yes, I tried holding X and triangle at startup for Time Crisis 3 but there is no Progressive mode. I had read there wasn't but I wanted to be sure. I passed on buying Vampire Night 2 weeks ago and a few days later decided I wanted it... but then I couldn't find it. LOL

The 2 point calibration does work. Aim off screen and hold the C button and pull the trigger. Though it only appears to work in SD mode. Switching into 2 point mode disables Progressive mode. However, I did try 2 point mode on my standard def Phillips CRT. It took a few tries to get the sights to line up just right but when it did the gun was arcade cab accurate.

First off here's a PDF owners manual from Samsung Site for your TV:
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/conte ... g_1018.pdf

Right Click and save that puppy!

On my CRT HD TV I do this using Guncon 2 and Vampire Night.
Here is what happened:

1. Tried to calibrate at default. No gunsight, nothing.

2. Hold Fire Press SELECT. Progressive Enabled text appears on screen. Gunsight now appear jumping around horizontaly. Have to fire several times to read calibration circle. Still have multiple sights jumping around.

3. Progressive still enabled, now hold Fire and press Bottom Button under handle. Now have both 480p Enabled and 2 point Calibration Text showing on screen. After multiple firing of trigger to calibrate I still get the gunsight jumping around.

I suspect either:

1. The game itself is not in 480p, just the gun. Reason why is I can never see the screen flicker over to 480p. Plus there is no option in the actual game, just in the gun calibration screen.

2. My TV is that proprietary 120hz not 100hz.

Okay now for your TV my thoughts:

According to that PDF Manual your TV shows 60hz which is very unusual for a 1080i TV . Since you have already used the Sony AV adaptor with no luck, I suspect you might get same results by running lightgun yellow tee direct to green y component connection. Still doesn't hurt to give it a shot.

One other try is direct yellow composite connection without any adaptors except Guncon 2 yellow Tee direct to Composite into TV not component.

On my TV there are different "TV Modes" to choose from. Interlace, DCR and Cinemamotion. You might try your TV modes in addition to playing around with brightness/contrast.

Get the Vampire Night game. According to Wiki only PS2 480p game out there. Its only $4.99 at Gamestop. Besides its a great shooter made by same team who made House of the Dead. Even if gamestop runs out you can always click this and let the site search local stores of your Zip:
http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/Product ... t_id=25571

Please let us know if any above works.

There are 2 different Sony AV Adaptors.There is a SCPH-1160 for PS1 and a SCPH-10130U for the PS2. As far as I can tell they are interchangeable. Out of curiosity which model number Sony AV adaptor did you test the Guncon 2 with?
Image
CRT vs LCD - Hardware Mods - HDAdvance - Custom Controllers - Game Storage - Wii Gamecube and other Guides:
CRTGAMER Guides in Board Guides Index: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1109425#p1109425

Image
Image
User avatar
wip3outguy7
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 2805
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Austin

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by wip3outguy7 Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:06 am

No luck running the green cable through the Guncon video T cable. The results were similar to using the Sony Adapter box. I forgot to check the model number on the box as well.
User avatar
CRTGAMER
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 11933
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:59 am
Location: Southern California

Re: LCD vs CRT, Best Video Inputs and Lightguns on HD

by CRTGAMER Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:35 pm

OUCH!

Thanks for update.

If I ever find a way to get Guncon 2 to work (Maybe somehow find out how to enable 480p mode for Vampire Nights) I will update this post as well.

There are HD Lightguns that use a sensor similiar to Wii and are compatible with the PS2, Xbox but none for Dreamcast. Looks like I'm going have to go this route ............

See first page for HD Lightgun links ............

First page also made mention of PS2 AV Adaptor (Black version) possibly working. PS1 version may be what's giving us both problems. Can you post which version (part number) you have?

I am still pursuing VGA to Component transcoder idea for the Dreamcast. Everything points to DC lightgun not working that way. I have not tried yet because cost of a good transcoder that will give full screen. I relly want House of the Dead to work on HD.

I personally have tested House of the Dead - DC Lightgun on a CRT VGA and it works great!

Has anyone have any luck VGA INPUT HD TUBE TV with Dreamcast Lightgun?
Image
CRT vs LCD - Hardware Mods - HDAdvance - Custom Controllers - Game Storage - Wii Gamecube and other Guides:
CRTGAMER Guides in Board Guides Index: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1109425#p1109425

Image
Image
Return to Guides

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests