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Ziggy587
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ziggy587 Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:56 pm

Ack wrote:Because after the initial five minutes tutorial (which involves you using a pistol to show a few hellions what their insides look like), it's straight up rapid fire action. You are highly mobile, you've sometimes got linear paths and sometimes big rooms in which if it moves, you kill it. If it bleeds, it dies, and you make it all bleed.


isiolia wrote:In practice, it's much different than the majority of shooters now, since it encourages running all over the room circle strafing and punching crap to death instead of hiding behind a crate, reloading, and waiting for health/shields to regen.


Well that sounds awesome. So what Popo was saying is that it plays more like Doom 1 and 3 than Doom 3 did.

What about health? Is it regen, or replenish?
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MrPopo
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by MrPopo Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:22 pm

Replenish. There's health and armor. Meleeing dudes can give you small bits of health and armor shards, and there are also health and armor pickups in level.
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isiolia
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by isiolia Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:42 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:What about health? Is it regen, or replenish?


It doesn't regen. You need to get health items. However, you aren't tied to just what items got placed in the level to start with.
Glory Kills are the unlimited thing you can do - basically, you get enemies down to a sliver of health and they get staggered (they also glow/etc, it's very obvious). If you can get up close and melee them, you do a fatality, and they drop a few items (you also get iframes while you do that). If you just leave them, then they wind up getting a little chunk of health back and resume attacking. So there's reason to just shoot them dead too.

The chainsaw and BFG are basically special attacks that have very limited ammo. The chainsaw has units of fuel you collect, and the max you can hold goes up via upgrades. Different enemies take a set number of units of fuel to kill, but if you have enough, they're one-hit kills that explode health and ammo.


Basically, you're encouraged and rewarded for playing aggressively. If you're at low health with no powerups nearby, you can try for a Glory Kill or use the chainsaw.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ack Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:48 pm

And each stage is loaded with secrets as well as special items, such as orbs that make you go berserk so you can rip and tear everything to death. There are also challenges to complete for runes you collect which give further enhancements, such as more ammo drops on glory kills, better jump controls, or infinite ammo when you have a certain amount of armor.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by emwearz Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:13 pm

So for about the 5th time I am going to try to play through Doom II.

I have finished the first before and enjoyed it, I have replayed it and enjoyed it. However Doom II is one of those games I seem to start every couple of years, get about halfway through and stop playing again and again.

I am playing it from within DOOM 3 BFG, I like the gamepad support and makes the engine feel far less aged.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Xeogred Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:16 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:So I was playing a bit of Final Doom... I'm not sure how I feel about it. I loaded up TNT and found a save file that I had, I didn't realize how far I got in the game (level 22). I loaded it up and remembered why I stopped playing, I couldn't figure out that level. Plutonia, I started a new game on UV. I was getting my ass handed to me on level 2, so I decided to switch to HMP. I just beat level 3, and this game is fucking hard even on HMP! I really like the level design (so far) but the enemy placement is ridiculous. Maybe I'll switch to Hey, Not Too Rough. But for now, I decided to give classic Doom a break so I can play Doom 3.

Don't say I didn't warn you dude, lmao...

TNT is a major mixed bag and some levels even feel like they were designed for Duke 3D and the Build Engine (hilariously huge urban like office environments, or desks and computers). Some of the maps are yeah, weird.

As it's been stressed already, Plutonia is a bitch with those chaingunner placements. No shame in bumping that difficulty down. Even compared to some fan megawads I've played, I still consider it to be one of the hardest mapsets of Doom period.

The level design like you've said is fantastic and consistently great though. My only gripe is what TSTR said earlier... the texturing is really lazy or they just thought brown walls looked great for 32 maps, lol. It gets really boring visually, I feel like a texture rehaul would make it look a lot cooler.

isiolia wrote:I think it borrows a bit from games like Devil May Cry as well. It frequently likes to basically lock the doors and start spawning waves of enemies in. Like those hack and slash games often incorporate, there's a measure of strategy in all the killin'. For instance, you've got the Glory Kills that can just look like gruesome fatalities, but provide a little health and ammo every time. So think of like, killing trash mobs for health orbs in other games, and it's similar. The Chainsaw fills a similar role.

In practice, it's much different than the majority of shooters now, since it encourages running all over the room circle strafing and punching crap to death instead of hiding behind a crate, reloading, and waiting for health/shields to regen.

Not to mention you can replay old levels with your carried over equipment, almost like a NG+ fashion. So that was really cool and it was an easy platinum.

Can't agree with the second part on higher difficulties though... you have no time for waiting for health/shields to regen. :P

Instead you need to constantly be on the move glory killing everything in sight and playing dance with the demons. Which goes entirely against the boring Gears/COD cover shooter style.

I don't think we can emphasis it enough Zig, Doom 4 is one of the best FPS's of all time. Probably the greatest and most important release in the genre since Half-Life 2 or something.

emwearz wrote:So for about the 5th time I am going to try to play through Doom II.

I have finished the first before and enjoyed it, I have replayed it and enjoyed it. However Doom II is one of those games I seem to start every couple of years, get about halfway through and stop playing again and again.

I am playing it from within DOOM 3 BFG, I like the gamepad support and makes the engine feel far less aged.

Well like Ziggy said, the sound is muffled, the super shotgun sound is completely different... and the controls aren't very ideal for quickly swapping. In fact, I think the super shotgun is placed between the chainsaw and pistol or something, not after the shotgun so that pissed me off. Also has the hilariously edited health pack icons.

But hey I've UV'd this version twice so it's fine.
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Ziggy587
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Ziggy587 Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:54 pm

Xeogred wrote:I don't think we can emphasis it enough Zig, Doom 4 is one of the best FPS's of all time. Probably the greatest and most important release in the genre since Half-Life 2 or something.


Well I just bought the physical copy on Amazon since they have it for $40.

emwearz wrote:I am playing it from within DOOM 3 BFG, I like the gamepad support and makes the engine feel far less aged.


So I just checked, you have the Doom WADs with the BFG edition. I highly suggest downloading a source port and playing that way. Whatever emulator or port they are using in BFG sucks hard. If you like using a controller, I'm sure there's a source port with controller support (and I'm sure Xeogred can tell you which one(s) they are).

Xeogred wrote:Well like Ziggy said...


And is it just me, or does it run a tad slow? What is this, the SNES or 32X port!? :lol:

Xeogred wrote:Also has the hilariously edited health pack icons.

But hey I've UV'd this version twice so it's fine.


I knew about the whole Red Cross thing before hand, so I wasn't shocked when I saw it.

Yeah, I wanna UV both games in BFG just to get the achievements. I mean... it's fucking DOOM! Why not play them?
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isiolia
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by isiolia Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:06 pm

Xeogred wrote:Can't agree with the second part on higher difficulties though... you have no time for waiting for health/shields to regen. :P

Instead you need to constantly be on the move glory killing everything in sight and playing dance with the demons. Which goes entirely against the boring Gears/COD cover shooter style.


I think you misread, as that's what I was trying to say as well. :lol:
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Xeogred Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:23 pm

Haha, whoops.

gzdoom has controller support and lets you customize each button/input (as you can with the keyboard) and the sensitivity way more than the built in BFG Edition. With that you can only use the shoulder buttons I believe to cycle through the weapons which takes forever... I made some quick hot keys in gzdoom until a few minutes later and realized, if I'm on the PC with Doom I may as well go keyboard/mouse and my A game levels up to S rank. :lol:

Think I'm up to map 19 or 20 on Community Chest Pack 4. Sadly been a few stinkers, one or two near this point. There's some crazy maps with all SIX keys (three keycards and three skull keys) and the exit doors requiring all of them. Lots of backtracking and weird moments in two maps I just did. Still haven't a blast, although it feels like Complex Doom might be breaking it a bit since there's been some absurdly brutal parts haha. Playing on HMP.

Here is another cool video showing off all of Ultimate Doom Episode 1 with Complex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fcoNt14LHA

This guy is playing with a pretty cool music upgrade too haha.

As always, I dislike mouselook with Doom haha... but yeah. As you can see there's like a dozen variants of the humans now, several different Imp's, etc. Obviously can't see much since this doesn't include all the Doom 2 monsters too, but yeah. Looks like an old version of Complex here because the combat shotgun looks really lame and goofy, it's completely different in the version I'm playing.

I'm also not sure if I mentioned this, but Complex Doom is literally just one pk3 file (I guess these are archives with things in them, but yeah). I was expecting it to be pretty complicated with multiple folders and stuff, but nope. All I had to do was add a single line in gzdoom's config file to load it up with the wad I'm playing and that's it. I don't think saves are cross compatible though, saves you make in vanilla Doom won't work with Complex and vice versa. But it's so simple to remove when I want to play vanilla again.
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Re: The DOOM Thread

by Melek-Ric Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:31 pm

The new DOOM's combat, while similar to DOOM 1 & 2, also reminds me of Ninja Gaiden II. Both games reward offensive play and you're encouraged to keep moving while killing.
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