Windows, Mac, DOS, and all those-other personal computing platforms
User avatar
bmoc
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 1506
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: PC build thread

by bmoc Thu May 30, 2019 3:27 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:Would you say that you'd have to be stupid to build an i7 over a Ryzen 7 right now? Considering just price to performance? Or all things considered? Let's say someone intends to use their PC for gaming but also photo, audio and video editing.

One really annoying thing right now is that the user base for reviews on motherboards is heavily on the AMD side right now, making finding the most reliable Intel mobo more of a gamble.


Here's a recent Tom's Hardware article that I think answers that question pretty well. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ryzen ... 38046.html

The Bottom Line

Intel’s Core i7-9700K excels in two areas that AMD’s Ryzen 7 2700X can’t touch: raw gaming performance in games and overclocking potential. If you’re after the absolute highest frame rates in your games, then the choice is clear: The i7-9700K is stronger in most games than a Ryzen 7 2700X. And if eking out the most performance by overclocking is important, you should stick with Intel's platform.

However, Intel’s hardware comes with a hefty price premium. Not only is the CPU quite a bit more expensive than AMD’s option, the Z370 and Z390 motherboards that you need for overclocking are also costlier than AMD’s alternatives. And to top it off, you also need an aftermarket cooler for the i7 processor, which widens the price gap even further. And, as of this writing, Intel’s new processors are in short supply, so if you manage to find one, you’ll probably pay significantly more than the MSRP for it.

AMD’s Ryzen 7 2700X is a much more reasonable option for most people. With its eight cores and 16 threads, it should have no trouble crunching through any task you throw at it, including video rendering, audio encoding, image editing, file compression and modern gaming. Intel’s chip is faster in some tasks, but we’d rather run AMD’s platform and spend the extra $100 (£80) or more on other components than brag about a few extra FPS in our favorite games.

Overall Winner: AMD


Basically I concur with what isiolia said. Tom's Hardware is very much a PC hardware enthusiast website so it is not surprising that they are favoring AMD at the moment. But they got the data to back up their claims.
User avatar
Ziggy587
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 13023
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: NY

Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 am

isiolia wrote:I think the main consideration for that right now is that we're like five weeks away from the Ryzen 3000 launch. Unless Intel is a foregone conclusion for you, it'd probably make a lot of sense to hold off on building until we've seen some testing.


Ugh, so therein lies my dilemma. I don't want to wait.

My main desktop is giving me problems (it's 10 years old). Long story short, I don't really want to spend any time or money on it since my plan was to build a new desktop anyway. But if it wasn't for the impending release of the new Ryzen and chipset, there would be no question. I would be building the new PC right now. But being that the new hardware is coming out, the obvious choice would be to wait, but then I would be without my desktop during that wait.

My main concern is always the motherboard. It's the most annoying thing to diagnose when it's dead because you basically have to rule everything else out. It's the most annoying thing to replace if it goes bad. When I shop for motherboard, I pick from the ones that have 4 or more stars with several hundred reviews. Even the best brands have bad production runs here and there. This is the only way I feel safe.

BUT! The new X570 chipset boards will be released along with the third gen Ryzen. So if you're building, it seems like a no-brainer to wait for the new chipset and CPU. But, the X470 chipset has been around for a while, and the user review base is large. The X570 boards will have no user review base, and you will have to wait several months for worthwhile feedback. So in my mind, it's not just waiting until July for the new Ryzen, it's waiting several months for the new motherboard reviews.

I'm not even sure the X570 boards are worth waiting for. I've read up a little on them, and I don't really care about what I'd be getting over a X470 board. It seems like PCIe 4.0 would be the biggest draw for gamers. Well, I'm fine with my PCIe 2.0 slot on my current board. I'm always a few steps behind with GPU power, so I think I'd be fine. It looks like several things are integrated into the X570 chipset, like WiFi and Bluetooth. Well, I will never use WiFi on my desktop and have yet to have a need for Bluetooth either. Moreover, the X570 chipset is a little more power hungry. And as a result they run hotter, which is why almost all of the X570 boards that have been announced have cooling fans on them.

Also, the X470 boards will support the new Ryzen CPUs. The annoying part though would be if the X470 board needs a BIOS update first. Since I'm building a new PC, if I get an X470 and a Ryzen 3000 I would probably have to get a cheap AM4 socket CPU just so I could update the BIOS first.

So all of that being said, I was thinking about building a new PC now with an X470 board and a cheap CPU. Then I could upgrade to a Ryzen 3000 after they release. Or, I get a Ryzen 2000 now and then don't worry about upgrading the CPU for some time.

Thoughts?
Image

My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
User avatar
bmoc
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 1506
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: PC build thread

by bmoc Fri May 31, 2019 9:31 am

Ziggy587 wrote:Also, the X470 boards will support the new Ryzen CPUs. The annoying part though would be if the X470 board needs a BIOS update first. Since I'm building a new PC, if I get an X470 and a Ryzen 3000 I would probably have to get a cheap AM4 socket CPU just so I could update the BIOS first.

So all of that being said, I was thinking about building a new PC now with an X470 board and a cheap CPU. Then I could upgrade to a Ryzen 3000 after they release. Or, I get a Ryzen 2000 now and then don't worry about upgrading the CPU for some time.

Thoughts?

Just FYI, some boards have a feature called Flashback that lets you update the BIOS without a CPU or RAM. All you need is power to the motherboard and a USB drive. My current board has this and it was a lifesaver when I was building my PC. Here is an example of one X470 board that has it. https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-crossha ... 6813119097 I don't necessarily recommend this board. It was just the first X470 board I found with that feature.

That said, if you decide to get an X470 and upgrade to a Ryzen 3000 later, I'd get a motherboard that has been released fairly recently to ensure it will be updated to support the new CPUs. Some manufacturers will drop support on a board willy-nilly. You don't want to be left out in the cold waiting for a BIOS update that will never happen.
User avatar
Ziggy587
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 13023
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: NY

Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Fri May 31, 2019 10:26 am

Wow. I've known about the crash free tech for a while. I think Asus was the first to implement such a feature, but everyone else starting doing it. It was originally just to restore the BIOS should it ever become corrupt or broken somehow. But I didn't realize that newer implementations allow you to flash the BIOS without a CPU. That's pretty neat !

I'm also forgetting, I have a Willem programmer. As long as the BIOS chip is socketed (it SHOULD be) I could simply pull it and flash it with my programmer. But I don't see a socket on the above example board. My guess is that they would rely on that tech and save the money on the socket. But if a board doesn't have that ability, it BETTER have a socketed BIOS!

edit: Bah. I guess I'm turning into an old man. I just looked at a few random boards from a few manufactures and it doesn't look like any one sockets the BIOS anymore. Fuckers.
Image

My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
User avatar
isiolia
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 5710
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 1:52 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: PC build thread

by isiolia Fri May 31, 2019 11:07 am

Ziggy587 wrote:Thoughts?


At this point it's more about your own preferences and tendencies. I mean, the main considerations here are always present when talking computer hardware. New hardware is always on the way, with the potential to bring a substantial improvement with it. Early adoption often does mean dealing with more bugs or other flaws that are later fixed. Either you find a balance you're happy with...or you just stick with buying used stuff I guess :lol:

Personally, given the timetable, I would rather wait and at least see how much of an upgrade Ryzen 3000 ends up being. I've had issues with my desktop lately too, and while that did end up being my video card, my first inclination was to find a stopgap solution. Not just build with what's available today. While new tech is always somewhere around the corner, we don't always have quite as precise (and close) a date on it. It's not like waiting on Intel's next round this fall.

If waiting isn't really an option, or you have a strong preference for patched and stable, then building with currently available stuff will still net you a great machine. While an X470 board would give an upgrade path, I think at that point I would just build with the tier chip you'd want. The extra money spent on a temporary one could go into a better GPU, which would likely net you better gaming experience than a jump to Ryzen 3000 would offer.
User avatar
Ziggy587
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 13023
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: NY

Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:09 pm

isiolia wrote:If waiting isn't really an option, or you have a strong preference for patched and stable, then building with currently available stuff will still net you a great machine.


I think that's exactly what I'm going to do. The impulse to get the latest hardware comes from my mindset to future proof when building. But really, I got 10 years out of my last build and the specs of that PC are still great for my needs. I think I'll be alright.

isiolia wrote:While an X470 board would give an upgrade path, I think at that point I would just build with the tier chip you'd want. The extra money spent on a temporary one could go into a better GPU, which would likely net you better gaming experience than a jump to Ryzen 3000 would offer.


Well actually, I'm not looking to get a new GPU for a while. I don't play many modern games on PC with cutting edge graphics. When I do get a newly released PC game, it's always the type of game that has low system requirements. I'll only upgrade my card when I purchase a game that requires a better card.

I'm thinking about going with the X470 chipset and a Ryzen 2700X. The performance will blow away my i7 965, so I'm not going to worry about not waiting for the gen 3 Ryzen to release.
Image

My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
User avatar
Ziggy587
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 13023
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: NY

Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:13 am

bmoc wrote:Just FYI, some boards have a feature called Flashback that lets you update the BIOS without a CPU or RAM. All you need is power to the motherboard and a USB drive. My current board has this and it was a lifesaver when I was building my PC. Here is an example of one X470 board that has it. https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-crossha ... 6813119097 I don't necessarily recommend this board. It was just the first X470 board I found with that feature.

That said, if you decide to get an X470 and upgrade to a Ryzen 3000 later, I'd get a motherboard that has been released fairly recently to ensure it will be updated to support the new CPUs. Some manufacturers will drop support on a board willy-nilly. You don't want to be left out in the cold waiting for a BIOS update that will never happen.


I just came across this. Very interesting. Apparently for second generation Ryzens that needed a BIOS updated on older (pre X470) motherboards, AMD had this program that would loan you an older CPU so you could update the BIOS.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3256290 ... -apus.html
Image

My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
User avatar
Ziggy587
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 13023
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: NY

Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:34 pm

I'm getting flashbacks. It was 10 years ago when I built my (as in for me and not someone else) last desktop but it's all coming back to me. Out of all the parts that I need to pick out for a new build, the hardest thing to find is a case. I guess I'm just really particular with my case, but I hate 99% of the ones out there. I'm really not a fan of the "gaming" aesthetic. Rather, I like a traditional looking case. But they are few and far between. So I have to look through dozens and dozens of cases to find the normal looking ones, and even then it's slim pickings.

I could simply reuse my last case. It's a Cooler Master Centurion 5, it's a tank of a case. But, new computer, so I figured new case too. That, and I wanted to get a PSU on bottom style case this time. Those were around 10 years ago, but they weren't common.
Image

My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
User avatar
marurun
Moderator
 
Posts: 10100
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:51 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: PC build thread

by marurun Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:25 pm

I don’t understand PSU on bottom cases. PSU often takes air out of the case, and you want that on top, since heat rises. Doesn’t make sense to put a source of heat at the bottom of the PC, even if that makes it easier to plug in.
B/S/T thread
My Classic Games Collection
My Steam Profile
The PC Engine Software Bible Forum, with Shoutbox chat - the new Internet home for PC Engine fandom.
User avatar
Ziggy587
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 13023
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:12 pm
Location: NY

Re: PC build thread

by Ziggy587 Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:23 pm

marurun wrote:I don’t understand PSU on bottom cases. PSU often takes air out of the case, and you want that on top, since heat rises. Doesn’t make sense to put a source of heat at the bottom of the PC, even if that makes it easier to plug in.


A lot of cases actually have top exhaust now, and that became even more popular with bottom mounted PSU cases. Heat rising matters in passive cooling situations, but not active ones. Hot and cold air wont have a chance to do what they wanna do naturally because the fans will always be creating a current. Also, most cases now that mount the PSU at the bottom can mount the PSU right side up or upside down. If you have a typical PSU with a fan on the bottom that exhausts out the back, you can suck air in from the bottom of the case from outside the case, meaning cool air into the PSU as oppose to hot air from inside the case. It will potentially keep the PSU cooler in that setup. Although, that's not how I plan to mount mine. But while a PSU can exhaust hot air from the case, that's not it's objective. You have case fans for that. The PSU fan is to cool the PSU, not the case.
Image

My Sale Thread - I am selling around three quarters of my video game collection as well as some other odds and ends!

I want to buy Universal Game Cases, if you have any spares please PM me! I'm looking to only deal with members that have good BST feedback on this forum.
Return to Personal Computers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests