The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
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Key-Glyph
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by Key-Glyph Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:14 am

Exhuminator wrote:Image

I haven't read the related study yet (I eventually will), but here's the question this chart suggests to me: what is it about nonviolent games that discourages general male play?

The question comes to mind for a couple of reasons. First of all, we all know how hard it is for males to deviate from traditional maleness. Our society typically thinks way worse of feminine men than masculine women, since the "abnormality" of the masculine woman (e.g. tomboy, pushy boss) is seen as stemming from aspirations toward something "greater" than her supposedly natural self; feminine men, on the other hand, are seen as associating with a "lesser" group, and this is seen as more of a degradation than just being a member of the lesser group from the start.

Secondly, there is a lot of line-drawing over casual games, and the only people I've ever heard say "Those aren't real games" or "I don't play casual games" are boys and men. I'm not saying you won't find a single girl or woman who will say the same thing, but for the most part casual game players (who seem to be predominately women from what I've read) don't really give a damn about how their gaming gets labeled -- and they also aren't going to vote you off Candy Crush island if you can't prove you've somehow earned the right to hang there. For that reason, I see the insistence on categorizing some video games as "not really video games" as being a product of men and boys trying to prove their affiliation with masculinity through what they won't play, which is a need generated by society's aforementioned hostile attitude toward feminine men.

I think my point is that everybody knows more variety in games would be a good thing, but I also think deliberate work should be done to make more aspects of this variety permissible for boys and men. Dividing the camps isn't good for anybody, and I think a lot of the work is going to have to come from men themselves in the form of not rejecting things as inferior because they are "girly" or perpetuating that stigma.

I used to get exclusively aggravated that almost every little girls' show I was aware of trumpeted the message of "niceness and friendship above all," but now on top of that I'm also aggravated that boys' shows so frequently lack that message entirely. So I think it will do a lot of good to approach the gender conundrum not just from the angle of "Why do boys love certain things more than girls?" but also of "Why do boys avoid certain things more than girls?"
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by the7k Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:31 am

I'll never forget the time I was working at a game store and a little kid wanted to by some Sims offshoot game that was about animals. The father flat out demanded that he put the game back and told him to instead get an M-rated gun game. Kid was on the verge of tears, but his father was not going to have his kid playing that girlie shit.

I felt frozen in place. Like, I couldn't help but imagine myself in the kid's shoes. I mean, I remember sneaking in episodes of Sailor Moon just because I was personally embarrassed by having my father see me watching it, and I remember keeping an N64 cart of South Park hidden in my dresser drawer because my father didn't approve of the language, but not being able to play an E-rated game because it wasn't violent enough - holy hell.
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by Erik_Twice Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:51 am

Key-Glyph wrote:I haven't read the related study yet (I eventually will), but here's the question this chart suggests to me: what is it about nonviolent games that discourages general male play?

I would be extremely wary of any study of this kind because the results change completely depending on who you ask. For example, I really doubt the polled group is representative of gamers as a whole when they list Starcraft as their favourite franchise, 10% still play their Dreamcasts and 80% of them are students. :lol:

(There a lot of issues with the group in this regard and they seem to have participated in many other studies which is fairly worrysome)

Still, I don't think that men are discouraged from non-violent games, I think that's confirmation bias talking. Men are well-represented across all kinds of games and dominate many if not most "non-violent" genres including, say, music games.

Secondly, there is a lot of line-drawing over casual games, and the only people I've ever heard say "Those aren't real games" or "I don't play casual games" are boys and men.

I have heard plenty of women say those things, it's not a gaming or male thing, it's just how fandom works. You can find plenty of women arguing that the new season isn't "real Dr Who" or that Sherlock is so much more refined than Elementary. :lol:

For that reason, I see the insistence on categorizing some video games as "not really video games" as being a product of men and boys trying to prove their affiliation with masculinity through what they won't play, which is a need generated by society's aforementioned hostile attitude toward feminine men.

People were just baffled that a title like Gone Home that has no meaningful player input got such rave reviews by the press. The reason why people say it's not a "real game" is not because they are afraid to be outed as femenine, but because all you do while playing it is walk around an empty house and read notes of text. :lol:
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by BoringSupreez Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:51 pm

Erik_Twice wrote:
For that reason, I see the insistence on categorizing some video games as "not really video games" as being a product of men and boys trying to prove their affiliation with masculinity through what they won't play, which is a need generated by society's aforementioned hostile attitude toward feminine men.

People were just baffled that a title like Gone Home that has no meaningful player input got such rave reviews by the press. The reason why people say it's not a "real game" is not because they are afraid to be outed as femenine, but because all you do while playing it is walk around an empty house and read notes of text. :lol:

That's how it got the "walking simulator" tag. It's a perfect example of putting too much focus on storytelling in videogames, and not enough on making sure there's an actual game holding the whole thing up. Even a virtual novel like Phoenix Wright has more gameplay, and I'd say Phoenix Wright tells better stories too.
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by pepharytheworm Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:57 pm

I would argue not just violent games do men flock too predominantly but competitive based games as well.
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by BoringSupreez Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:59 pm

pepharytheworm wrote:I would argue not just violent games do men flock too predominantly but competitive based games as well.

True. And violence could be called the truest form of competition, in a way.
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by o.pwuaioc Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:51 am

pepharytheworm wrote:I would argue not just violent games do men flock too predominantly but competitive based games as well.

Does that mean women aren't into competitive games? So, tennis, basketball, softball, soccer, dozens of Olympic sports, those are all about problem solving together, right?

Also, any study that says men "flock" to competitive based games?
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by Exhuminator Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:54 am

o.pwuaioc wrote:Also, any study that says men "flock" to competitive based games?

Don't bother man. Even if you provide sources that are peer reviewed as soon as someone doesn't agree with the results they will simply question the sampling pool itself.
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Erik_Twice
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by Erik_Twice Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:29 am

Exhuminator wrote:Don't bother man. Even if you provide sources that are peer reviewed as soon as someone doesn't agree with the results they will simply question the sampling pool itself.

Oh, c'mon, I gave good reasons why the sampling pool of this particular study is weird, it's not a matter of me agreeing or not with the results.
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Re: Interesting Research: "Sexist Games=Sexist Gamers?"

by pepharytheworm Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:57 am

o.pwuaioc wrote:
pepharytheworm wrote:I would argue not just violent games do men flock too predominantly but competitive based games as well.

Does that mean women aren't into competitive games? So, tennis, basketball, softball, soccer, dozens of Olympic sports, those are all about problem solving together, right?

Also, any study that says men "flock" to competitive based games?

Mostly male doesn't mean no females. :? Also in your Olmypic and sports analogy why are most of their coaches male?
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