The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
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marurun
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by marurun Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:32 pm

MrPopo wrote:Are you just now realizing I'm a software developer?


*raises hand*

I didn't know, either... (probably because I'm an anti-social putz who doesn't know how to get along with or get to know people, even on a forum I feel very passionately about)
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by marurun Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:38 pm

Jmustang1968 wrote:Had this been a character specifically written into the game, I would've really objected to it being altered. Writing a fictional character acting in ways we might not find tasteful is an excellent way for an audience to reflect on their views concerning a topic or behavior. This type of thing is prevalent throughout history in works of literature, film, and other art.

The Pillars thing is different because it was just some backer message on a tombstone meant to kind of fit a medieval setting and be something you might see on a grave marker. Obsidian didn't outright pull it, but discussed it with the backer and had it changed. No biggie, it really had no effect on the game as it served no functional or productive purpose, and I think they handled it in good faith.


Dammit! Stop reading my gosh-darned mind! :wink:

I agree whole-heartedly with this sentiment. And speaking of agreeing...

Film was an extension of theatre which was a widely accepted adult entertainment and was treated as such from the beginning.


The earliest films were essentially recorded plays, as if they were on-stage and the camera were the seated audience. It took a while for film to start developing as its own medium, to be more than simply recorded theater. In this way it did quickly inherit the artistic merit of the theater. Conversely, it did take some time for it to develop into a truly independent art form. Creative cuts and camera angles and stories that couldn't be done in the theater didn't happen over night. Further, if you look at theater today, especially in the big markets like Broadway, some of the ideas of film have been co-opted back into theater.

Games are such an old idea, but in such a new representation. It's no wonder folks who didn't at least partially grow up with them might have trouble seeing how much more then CAN represent.
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Forlorn Drifter
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by Forlorn Drifter Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:57 pm

Ack wrote:
MrPopo wrote:As a programmer I find it very easy to believe that it wasn't actually vetted. There are a lot of these messages throughout the game, and it would be very easy to just import them into the game resources using a script.


As someone who works for a corporation, I also find it very easy to believe it wasn't vetted.

Well, its very possible I'm wrong, but if I was allowing backers to put something in the game, I'd be checking things pretty closely.
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by MrPopo Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:03 pm

Forlorn Drifter wrote:
Ack wrote:
MrPopo wrote:As a programmer I find it very easy to believe that it wasn't actually vetted. There are a lot of these messages throughout the game, and it would be very easy to just import them into the game resources using a script.


As someone who works for a corporation, I also find it very easy to believe it wasn't vetted.

Well, its very possible I'm wrong, but if I was allowing backers to put something in the game, I'd be checking things pretty closely.

When you're working for a living you learn the value of not caring.
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by Forlorn Drifter Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:19 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
In some cases. If things go wrong where my Dad works, the river gets filled with shit or it goes back up the pipes into everyones homes. Or just flooding with shit water. There's quite a few jobs where you have to care, or get fired.
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by MrPopo Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:23 pm

Forlorn Drifter wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:
In some cases. If things go wrong where my Dad works, the river gets filled with shit or it goes back up the pipes into everyones homes. Or just flooding with shit water. There's quite a few jobs where you have to care, or get fired.

Well that's the trick; you only care enough to not get fired. Some jobs require a higher level of caring than others to meet that bar.
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by the7k Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:37 pm

It's complicated for sure. I feel like creators should have the freedom to do whatever the hell they want to with a game, but that becomes very complicated when the issue of patching comes up. It'd be like if George Lucas could effectively "Special Edition" every single version of Star Wars out there that people have already bought - I sure as hell don't want his edits, I want the original, but with gaming you just have to suck up the edits and eat it with a smile.

I suppose the solution would be for creators to be up-front with their content from the get-go so that no one makes a regretful purchase, but then the problem is how in the heck can you possibly account for every little thing that might offend someone? Even if you did go over everything with a fine-tooth comb, something that didn't register a blip on any of your dev team might trigger someone else into fits of homicidal rage.

I do feel like every time a developer does change story content on account of player rage, it is further proof that games are not art, but instead a product for the masses to consume. It doesn't matter what artistic merit your work has, all that matters is that your work and future work sells to the most people possible.

It's important for everyone to realize that not every message that shows up in a game is an endorsement or condemnation by the dev team. It's important to realize that not every game is being used as a mouth piece. Sometimes a game is going to have offensive language, settings or situations not because the developer endorses or condemns them, but because that developer is trying to build a convincing, believable world.

The situation reminds me a lot of Django Unchained, and how everyone was hopping on Tarantino for the repeated use of the word "nigger," as if he was endorsing the use of the word. The difference is that Tarantino didn't buckle. If you want to have a harsh and unpleasant world, then it's going to have some harsh and unpleasant things in it.
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by Ack Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:42 pm

Forlorn Drifter wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:
In some cases. If things go wrong where my Dad works, the river gets filled with shit or it goes back up the pipes into everyones homes. Or just flooding with shit water. There's quite a few jobs where you have to care, or get fired.


I have coworkers who have jobs where if they screw up, we get slapped with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of fines(or millions in a few cases. The current record for these kinds of fines is Telemundo with around $24 million's worth in one year). These folks are chronically underfunded and understaffed, with little input and bizarre chains of command. Trust me, companies don't care much about the vetting side of things. It's about making money, not making sure you don't lose it.
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