The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
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Key-Glyph
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by Key-Glyph Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:03 pm

I think the Mass Effect thing is an interesting case, because a great deal of players' fury was due to the creative team's constant narrative of "all of your choices will matter" as the games pushed on. Folks felt as though they'd been outright lied to when there wasn't an intensely unique payoff in the endings. I think those players felt they were calling the game out on "false advertising" instead of just generally complaining, and believed that the subsequent DLC was giving them what they felt they'd been expressly promised in the first place.

I thought it was an interesting phenomenon, although I don't have an opinion on whether or not Bioware "should" have done it. I also don't know how the company made their decision, but I will say that I at least thought it was a nice gesture on their part to create the expanded DLC and give it away for free. They'd made their money at that point and could have easily told everyone to get over it. And to be fair, I think one of the bigwigs did do that in several interviews regardless, and my memory of that snarky attitude is really the only thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

And I guess that's something I feel in general about this push-and-pull between audiences and entertainers: I wish creators would drop the snark. If you're a company who decides to change something based on consumer feedback, don't do it and then lash out with some insulting comment about it. Just own your own decisions and try to keep it positive.
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lisalover1
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by lisalover1 Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:16 pm

AppleQueso wrote:It isn't "my fee fees are hurt" it's about how shit like this adds more to cultural baggage of cissexism in society. It's basically a 'deceptive transsexual' trope, which reinforces the notion that by living and asserting our identities, we're deceitful liars.

Apparently 'accidentally' sleeping with us is worth killing yourself over, and apparently this happening is hilarious. Har har such a funny joke, he accidentally slept with someone like me.

I mean it's not like trans women themselves aren't frequently murdered over exactly this sort of 'hilarious' scenario, right?

The response from the community to the trans woman who brought this shit up in the first place is pretty telling too. Intentional deadnaming and misgendering out the wazoo. Totally no transphobia here.

Then naturally they replace the joke with one that mocks the people who were bothered by it. Classy.

So much this. People, the real issue here isn't about whether or not Obsidian should change something in a game. This is about something that regularly gets people KILLED, and you're all turning a blind eye to it. You're all more concerned about whether Obsidian has the right to change their own game, meanwhile the abhorrent notion that trans women are "evil deceivers" who bright naught but shame to others gets deeper cemented into the public consciousness, making it that much easier to dehumanize us. Let me repeat myself:

THIS STUFF GETS US KILLED.

That is the real issue, and one that is dangerous to ignore.
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BogusMeatFactory
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by BogusMeatFactory Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:20 pm

I don't understand how saying that Obsidian should take something like this down is turning a blind eye. What is expected?
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J T
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by J T Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:25 pm

Exhuminator wrote:I believe allowing your audience to dictate your creative output is tacky.


This.

MrPopo wrote:Or you could do what reasonable people do and listen to the criticism, then determine if you think it's valid enough to change things.


And this.

I want developers to have artistic integrity, but that also means recognizing when fans have a good idea.
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Ack
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by Ack Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:32 pm

lisalover1 wrote:
AppleQueso wrote:It isn't "my fee fees are hurt" it's about how shit like this adds more to cultural baggage of cissexism in society. It's basically a 'deceptive transsexual' trope, which reinforces the notion that by living and asserting our identities, we're deceitful liars.

Apparently 'accidentally' sleeping with us is worth killing yourself over, and apparently this happening is hilarious. Har har such a funny joke, he accidentally slept with someone like me.

I mean it's not like trans women themselves aren't frequently murdered over exactly this sort of 'hilarious' scenario, right?

The response from the community to the trans woman who brought this shit up in the first place is pretty telling too. Intentional deadnaming and misgendering out the wazoo. Totally no transphobia here.

Then naturally they replace the joke with one that mocks the people who were bothered by it. Classy.

So much this. People, the real issue here isn't about whether or not Obsidian should change something in a game. This is about something that regularly gets people KILLED, and you're all turning a blind eye to it. You're all more concerned about whether Obsidian has the right to change their own game, meanwhile the abhorrent notion that trans women are "evil deceivers" who bright naught but shame to others gets deeper cemented into the public consciousness, making it that much easier to dehumanize us. Let me repeat myself:

THIS STUFF GETS US KILLED.

That is the real issue, and one that is dangerous to ignore.


Except I thought this discussion was about companies changing game content based on public response, not just about the representation of the trans community in video games and public attitudes towards them. Different conversation. Not saying that one on transgender representation shouldn't happen, just that you're focusing on one discussion while we're discussing something else. Related, yes, but still different.
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by Jmustang1968 Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:31 pm

There is another social media outrage with Pillars now. In a side quest, an NPC asks you to kill a child, and that is one option to complete it. Will be interesting to see how Obsidian deals with this.
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by J T Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:09 pm

Jmustang1968 wrote:There is another social media outrage with Pillars now. In a side quest, an NPC asks you to kill a child, and that is one option to complete it. Will be interesting to see how Obsidian deals with this.


God gave us free will, why can't Obsidian?
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MrPopo
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by MrPopo Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:27 pm

J T wrote:
Jmustang1968 wrote:There is another social media outrage with Pillars now. In a side quest, an NPC asks you to kill a child, and that is one option to complete it. Will be interesting to see how Obsidian deals with this.


God gave us free will, why can't Obsidian?

Because it's a slippery slope. First you're killing a kid in a video game and before you know it you're hijacking a school bus and driving it full of explosives into a kindergarten.
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Gunstar Green
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by Gunstar Green Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:39 pm

J T wrote:
Jmustang1968 wrote:There is another social media outrage with Pillars now. In a side quest, an NPC asks you to kill a child, and that is one option to complete it. Will be interesting to see how Obsidian deals with this.


God gave us free will, why can't Obsidian?


I guess nobody but me set orphans on fire in Fallout 2.
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Re: Changing plot content of games based on player outrage

by MrPopo Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:46 pm

Gunstar Green wrote:
J T wrote:
Jmustang1968 wrote:There is another social media outrage with Pillars now. In a side quest, an NPC asks you to kill a child, and that is one option to complete it. Will be interesting to see how Obsidian deals with this.


God gave us free will, why can't Obsidian?


I guess nobody but me set orphans on fire in Fallout 2.

It's more fun to let them steal primed dynamite from you.
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