The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
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ninjainspandex
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by ninjainspandex Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:26 pm

why not just mute everyone or always be in party chat? I've never had meaningful conversations with random people in call of duty or battlefield, so why even bother?
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Jmustang1968
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by Jmustang1968 Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:28 pm

Ive gotten to the point that I only really play online with friends.
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Cronozilla
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by Cronozilla Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:01 am

I don't like the "That's how it's always been" attitude because it's simultaneously excusing the behavior (which is bullshit) and it's also not true.

I remember playing tons of games in the late 90s and early 00s online where this toxicity didn't exist.

From my recollection, it didn't seep in until Counter-Strike rolled around and an entirely new demographic, whom may or may not be incredibly immature, rolled into the past time.

At that point in time, it just wasn't fun anymore.
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by BogusMeatFactory Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:03 am

What also helps add to the toxicity is the complacency of normal people. We just mute all and let them do their thing. Should normal rational people hide like that? Not at all.
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BoringSupreez
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by BoringSupreez Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:26 am

BogusMeatFactory wrote:What also helps add to the toxicity is the complacency of normal people. We just mute all and let them do their thing. Should normal rational people hide like that? Not at all.

So basically you're not content with being able to choose not listen to people you consider offensive, you're mad that they can do it at all. Even without your hearing it. Does it make you mad that there are books at Barnes and Noble that put forward different (different as in radical) opinions than your own? Does it make you mad that right now on 4chan, there are thousands of people communicating horrifically politically incorrect ideas? That there are people who are legitimately racist and sexist, and are not sorry for it? Do you feel that normal rational people should stop hiding, and do something about them too? Or does that apply only to your games? And what is it you think we should be doing once we stop hiding?
prfsnl_gmr wrote:There is nothing feigned about it. What I wrote is a display of actual moral superiority.
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by pierrot Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:35 am

BoringSupreez wrote:[...]Report the offending parties to the admins of the service.

Pretty sure this is the kind of thing proponents of change to online gaming culture are suggesting.


BoringSupreez wrote:"Doc, it hurts when I do this"
"Don't do that"

Is this a reference to something? Generally a doctor has to do a lot more about people's pain than tell them not to feel it.


BoringSupreez wrote:Enjoyable online gaming is not a right; however, you do have every right to choose not to partake in those activities.

People don't have the right to be treated like human beings on the internet? This is the kind of idea that makes it so easy for people to act like boors while online. The internet doesn't have to be that dark alleyway in NYC that one 'just shouldn't go down.' The more people perpetuate the idea that 'that's just how the internet is,' the harder it becomes to actually establish more commonly recognized etiquette, and accountability for actions. It's been in a bit of a wild-west phase for a while, but it's gradually shifting. It can become a better, more civilized realm, but I'm afraid that younger generations are being raised with the wrong perception of the internet.


BoringSupreez wrote:We should try to bring others up to our level of quality of life, not demonize ourselves for having it better than others.

Yes, exactly; and that entails recognizing the disparities, and actually trying to help other demographics when they air their grievances. Helping others does not always necessitate concessions, but it can by nature require relinquishing/sharing a certain amount of influence/power/standing that we're not as accustomed to.
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by Xeogred Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:44 am

Sload Soap wrote:Bad Company 2 on 360 had a much, much better player base than Battlefield 3. I never once got a shitty message on BC2 but B3 was awful for it. This is probably because I jumped onto BC2 a year after launch and it was mostly the dedicated few left playing, whereas I had B3 from day one and it attracted a much broader audience.

Heck yeah, this was easily the last FPS I played that I really got into that had great communities across both the 360 and PC. When the community is fun and just, it easily makes the game all the better itself.

I'd even say that CoD4 was pretty decent early on for the longest time. At the time there was the other side, Halo. It's hilarious to say I feel like I've been a much happier person since I stopped caring about the Halo games online, just community wise. The communities definitely drove me to my breaking points. At first I couldn't even play solo because it got so frustrating and then after that, my friends and I would usually just get in a party chat and mute everyone else (I can see how some hate that, but can you blame us? haha). Let's not even start with the teabagging.

I think it mostly has to do with internet anonymity. I was just hearing about a case a week or two back on the radio with Johny Dare, about some kid getting knocked out or something because he basically thought he was invincible and took that kind of attitude and toxicity into the real world and reality came his way.

It's a shame and one of the handful of things that makes me hate our digital era and future a bit... and here I am typing away when I should be sleeping. The irony.
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BoringSupreez
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by BoringSupreez Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:06 am

pierrot wrote:
BoringSupreez wrote:[...]Report the offending parties to the admins of the service.

Pretty sure this is the kind of thing proponents of change to online gaming culture are suggesting.

If so, that's fine. It shouldn't go any farther than that.

pierrot wrote:
BoringSupreez wrote:"Doc, it hurts when I do this"
"Don't do that"

Is this a reference to something? Generally a doctor has to do a lot more about people's pain than tell them not to feel it.

It's from an old Smith and Dale sketch.


pierrot wrote:
BoringSupreez wrote:Enjoyable online gaming is not a right; however, you do have every right to choose not to partake in those activities.

People don't have the right to be treated like human beings on the internet?

If by that you mean people don't have the right to not hear insults and offensive speech when they voluntarily choose to go online and not mute the microphones, then no, they don't have that right. It's not a right, and it shouldn't be considered one.

pierrot wrote:This is the kind of idea that makes it so easy for people to act like boors while online. The internet doesn't have to be that dark alleyway in NYC that one 'just shouldn't go down.' The more people perpetuate the idea that 'that's just how the internet is,' the harder it becomes to actually establish more commonly recognized etiquette, and accountability for actions. It's been in a bit of a wild-west phase for a while, but it's gradually shifting. It can become a better, more civilized realm, but I'm afraid that younger generations are being raised with the wrong perception of the internet.

The "wild west" aspect of the internet is one of my favorite things about it. Our society is so politically correct that the internet is one of the few places you can voice or hear whatever (literally whatever) you want without fear of retribution. It's the greatest bastion of free speech in existence.

If individual websites and services want to become politically correct on their own that's fine, but I would hate to see it happen to the internet as a whole. I can see what you're talking about happening on sites like Kotaku, Gamespot, and Polygon. I choose not to browse those sites too much since they aggravate me.

pierrot wrote:
BoringSupreez wrote:We should try to bring others up to our level of quality of life, not demonize ourselves for having it better than others.

Yes, exactly; and that entails recognizing the disparities, and actually trying to help other demographics when they air their grievances. Helping others does not always necessitate concessions, but it can by nature require relinquishing/sharing a certain amount of influence/power/standing that we're not as accustomed to.

Using racist/sexist terms like "white/male privilege" does nothing to further the living conditions of others. Two wrongs don't make a right. Also I'm not sure what you're trying to say specifically with your last sentence, care to elaborate?
prfsnl_gmr wrote:There is nothing feigned about it. What I wrote is a display of actual moral superiority.
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MrPopo
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by MrPopo Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:29 am

There's a difference between "free speech" and "being a jackass".
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Re: The toxicity of online gaming.

by BoringSupreez Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:36 am

MrPopo wrote:There's a difference between "free speech" and "being a jackass".

True... but you can't really take away the right to be a jackass without stepping on the right of free speech. Who's going to be the judge of what's jackassery, and what isn't? Maybe I consider everything that I disagree with to be jackassery.

That's why the Neo Nazis are allowed to parade through towns on occasion; as much as Neo Nazis suck it's their right to believe and say what they want.
prfsnl_gmr wrote:There is nothing feigned about it. What I wrote is a display of actual moral superiority.
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