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Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:01 pm
by o.pwuaioc
pepharytheworm wrote: Why are you bringing up this argument again for what seems little purpose then to antagonize Exhuminator? I would rather you state your opinions on if the PS2 is retro or not then to continually critique Exhuminator's thought process.

I wasn't continually critiquing Ex's thought process, I was criticizing the entire thread. My opinions are long-stated. No, the PS2 is not retro. The games on it are not retro. The graphics are not retro. And old/outdated != retro. The word everyone should be using is outdated. It is not "in style" to play the PS2. It is, however, outdated.

Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:06 pm
by Exhuminator
Bone, God Of War is now 10 years old, and Devil May Cry is 14 years old. In the modern-centric world of video games, those two might as well be antiques now 'eh?

I still go with anything that's two generations behind is "retro". Since the PS2 was succeeded by the PS3 and now the PS4, in my book the PS2 is thus "retro" these days. I'm not saying my outlook makes perfect logical sense, or is provable in a court of law, but it's how I feel yo.
o.pwuaioc wrote:The word everyone should be using is outdated.

Alright, let's go back to the drawing board. "Retro" is out. So let's say you took the word "outdated", or better yet, "outmoded", but wanted to sprinkle a bit of nostalgic pining in the mix. What word should that be? I'm not antagonizing you, I'm serious, what's a better word? Maybe we can change the gaming world's vocabulary, starting right here man. We can do this.

Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:17 pm
by isiolia
BoneSnapDeez wrote:Fair enough. But many of those things are optional (I ignore achievements and have never connected to the internet with any console, with the exception of the Wii) - to me the PS2 still "feels" more like a modern console than a retro one.


Some of that kind of functionality can be ignored, sure, but I consider retro to be more the dictionary definition of adhering to a formerly fashionable style or standard. The modern trend for devices is account centric. Whether you buy a PS4, an iPhone, a Windows PC, or whatever, the push is to log into them with a centralized account that syncs up your content and settings via the cloud, etc. Discs optional, if even available...removable storage possibly not even an option. Even if you never hooked a PS3 to the internet, the device is designed like that. PS4s and XBox Ones need to install games too, because Blu-ray isn't fast enough.

Most things a PS2 does have evolved since it hit the market.

Retro is an ever-growing category more than it'd be some line in the sand. 8-tracks being retro doesn't mean cassettes can't be too, or vinyl, or even CDs for that matter.


Games themselves would vary a lot. Not having online for some games would be pretty retro. Online games the PS2 did have are. EQ (and FFXI that copied it) are very different from WoW and in turn most MMOs after WoW that copied it. So, retro, as I see it.

Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:30 pm
by o.pwuaioc
Exhuminator wrote:Alright, let's go back to the drawing board. "Retro" is out. So let's say you took the word "outdated", or better yet, "outmoded", but wanted to sprinkle a bit of nostalgic pining in the mix. What word should that be? I'm not antagonizing you, I'm serious, what's a better word? Maybe we can change the gaming world's vocabulary, starting right here man. We can do this.

Antiquated?

Retro is less of a nostalgic pining. When bell-bottoms came back in the 90s, that was retro fashion, but the kids wearing them weren't pining for the disco era.

Kiesza's "Hideaway" has retro sounds, but not only is it modern, the sounds she is emulating were from an era when she was either not born or just a toddler (she was born in 1989, Finally came out in 1991).

We can indeed change the question to "Do enough people now play the PS2 as a fashionable statement of their gaming to call it a trend?" If not, it's difficult to say—blanketly—that it's a retro console. It's just a bit out of date. I mean, if someone doesn't have a smart phone, is that retro? They just stopped making games for the PS2 a couple years ago, and Okami was released on PS2, Wii, and PS3.

It's older than current technology, that's a fact. But it doesn't feel like it's antiquated technology compared to memory-less 2600 or, for larger comparisons, a horse and buggy is for transportation.

isiolia wrote:Some of that kind of functionality can be ignored, sure, but I consider retro to be more the dictionary definition of adhering to a formerly fashionable style or standard.

This gets straight to the heart of what I've been saying. The PS2 does not adhere to a formerly fashionable style or standard, because it's already obsolete. Perhaps purposefully playing games that exclude accounts is retro, but otherwise the PS2 can no more be retro than Monopoly is.

Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:50 pm
by Exhuminator
o.pwuaioc wrote:Retro is less of a nostalgic pining. When bell-bottoms came back in the 90s, that was retro fashion, but the kids wearing them weren't pining for the disco era.

Once more I want to talk about "retro" in context of the video game lexicon only. Let's not draw correlations to other mediums and formats that the word can be attributed to. When video game players are using the word "retro", they are not using it in the same context that a fashion addict would. I don't think these inherent meanings are analog.
o.pwuaioc wrote:We can indeed change the question to "Do enough people now play the PS2 as a fashionable statement of their gaming to call it a trend?"

Is it a phenomena that people play an old game console as an act of fashion sense? I do not believe this is the case.
o.pwuaioc wrote:I mean, if someone doesn't have a smart phone, is that retro?

No. But if they have a smartphone and a rotary phone, and choose to use the rotary phone instead to make a phone call, you could say they are engaging in retro behavior right? That at least is as close to an analog as we can make, but again, phones and video games are not the same thing.
o.pwuaioc wrote:They just stopped making games for the PS2 a couple years ago, and Okami was released on PS2, Wii, and PS3.

If someone makes a brand new Atari 2600 game today, does that make the new game automatically retro? Or is it just a new game on retro hardware? Is it the hardware's age that dictates its retro status more than its library? New Dreamcast games are still made from time to time today for example.
o.pwuaioc wrote:a horse and buggy is for transportation

Again, let's keep the context solely on video games. Outside analogies only serve to obfuscate the issue.
o.pwuaioc wrote:This gets straight to the heart of what I've been saying. The PS2 does not adhere to a formerly fashionable style or standard, because it's already obsolete.

That would mean that for something to be retro, it must be created with the aim of being retro to begin with. And I understand why you are saying this. Because you are going off the definition term of "retro". But what you seem to continue to ignore is that the term "retro" has been altered to mean something wholly different in the realm of video games. If you don't believe this is true, try making a poll about the matter in the general games forum. It would be interesting to see the results of how gamers define what the word "retro" means to them. Maybe more people would agree with you, who knows?

I think it's hilarious that we've reignited a two year old debate that I had honestly forgotten about. But I want to be clear I am no way trying to goad you or belittle your point of view.

Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:55 pm
by isiolia
o.pwuaioc wrote:This gets straight to the heart of what I've been saying. The PS2 does not adhere to a formerly fashionable style or standard, because it's already obsolete. Perhaps purposefully playing games that exclude accounts is retro, but otherwise the PS2 can no more be retro than Monopoly is.


Eh, it adheres to that standard because that was the standard at the time.

In that sense though, no actually-old games or consoles are retro, in and of themselves. Only purposefully recreating an old style would be - which I wouldn't necessarily disagree with, far as definitions go.
However, the common usage seems to be broader than that, with "retro gaming" nearly always referring to actually playing old games.

Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:02 pm
by o.pwuaioc
isiolia wrote:
o.pwuaioc wrote:This gets straight to the heart of what I've been saying. The PS2 does not adhere to a formerly fashionable style or standard, because it's already obsolete. Perhaps purposefully playing games that exclude accounts is retro, but otherwise the PS2 can no more be retro than Monopoly is.


Eh, it adheres to that standard because that was the standard at the time.

In that sense though, no actually-old games or consoles are retro, in and of themselves. Only purposefully recreating an old style would be - which I wouldn't necessarily disagree with, far as definitions go.
However, the common usage seems to be broader than that, with "retro gaming" nearly always referring to actually playing old games.

Properly, the "retro" part of "retro gaming" shouldn't refer to the games or the consoles, but the act of playing "outdated" consoles, typically as a way to contrast it with modern games. Playing old games is retro. Playing modern games is current.

Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:11 pm
by isiolia
o.pwuaioc wrote:Properly, the "retro" part of "retro gaming" shouldn't refer to the games or the consoles, but the act of playing "outdated" consoles, typically as a way to contrast it with modern games. Playing old games is retro. Playing modern games is current.


Sure, but calling the consoles or games themselves retro could also just be classifying them as old enough to count as that. Insofar as it actually matters. :lol:

Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:25 pm
by pepharytheworm
o.pwuaioc wrote:Properly, the "retro" part of "retro gaming" shouldn't refer to the games or the consoles, but the act of playing "outdated" consoles, typically as a way to contrast it with modern games. Playing old games is retro. Playing modern games is current.

If a PS2 is not retro, do you consider playing one retro since you admit it is outdated?

Re: Do you think the PS2 is retro?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:28 pm
by prfsnl_gmr
Semantics.

:lol: