The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
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catnip
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Re: Maybe games just aren't the medium for truly great stori

by catnip Tue May 20, 2014 11:11 am

General_Norris wrote:
catnip wrote:I've never enjoyed reading Shakespeare, and for that reason, I don't think he's great.

There's more to art than whether you like it, you know? :lol:

I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment. Isn't art created for enjoyment, for inspiration, for... well, I suppose it can be made for any number of reasons. But if I don't understand why something is great, I'm not going to think it is just because someone tells me to.

For example, not only do I think Final Fantasy IX is the greatest game of all time; I honestly believe it, as a form of media, has spoken to me more than any book, song, movie, or game I've ever experienced. I do believe that that is great art, and I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking that, even if no one else does.

I think, at its core, art is just a subjective-ass game. I don't think Shakespeare is great; I appreciate that others do, and it speaks to them, and it impresses them, but it simply doesn't to me. Queso, I think your point is simply this, but on a greater scale; yes, Shakespeare is ingrained into our consciousness as a great writer, and people study them their entire lives and are in awe of his brilliance. I think that his work affecting and inspiring scholars generations from now, ingraining himself in our culture, is definitely badass, but I definitely don't think that his longevity or impact on society makes him great, y'know?

We're teetering on the brink of the "what is art" question, which... well, at that point, the entire conversation is going to devolve into pure semantics, and I'd like to avoid that :p

And yeah, Popo, I've seen a few productions; it's definitely a lot more... fun? But I still barely have any idea what's going on. I simply don't understand, and don't like, Shakespeare, and have no real intention to try. I did just finish a Shakespeare play (Hamlet), because I told my gf I would if she finished FFIX. I probably won't read him again, but I may go see a play with her or something.

Also, I feel bad - any time I have this discussion with people, it's always Shakespeare that gets brought up. I really don't mean to shit on him, or people who like his work. He's just super... famous, haha

EDIT: Maybe this is our hang-up, too: if it's a semantic argument on what "great" means, my definition is "I think it's great", and that's all. It has no bearing on cultural impact, historical or aesthetic value. If that's the "great" we're talking about, then sure, Billy Shakes is great.
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CavZee
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Re: Maybe games just aren't the medium for truly great stori

by CavZee Tue May 20, 2014 1:35 pm

I'd say the vast majority of stories in games and movies are awful or clichéd in some way. That's what makes it all the more interesting when you watch a film or play something that really captures your attention from a plot point of view.
Last edited by CavZee on Tue May 20, 2014 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Maybe games just aren't the medium for truly great stori

by AppleQueso Tue May 20, 2014 1:44 pm

lol
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catnip
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Re: Maybe games just aren't the medium for truly great stori

by catnip Tue May 20, 2014 1:53 pm

CavZee wrote:I'd say the vast majority of stories in games and movies are awful or clichéd in some way. That's what makes it all the more interesting when you watch a film or play something that really captures your attention from a plot point of view.

Word man, any games in particular come to mind?
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Re: Maybe games just aren't the medium for truly great stori

by CavZee Tue May 20, 2014 2:16 pm

catnip wrote:
CavZee wrote:I'd say the vast majority of stories in games and movies are awful or clichéd in some way. That's what makes it all the more interesting when you watch a film or play something that really captures your attention from a plot point of view.

Word man, any games in particular come to mind?

Well a couple that come to mind at the moment would be Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, both Zero Escape games but especially 999, several Final Fantasy games, and The Last of Us.
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Re: Maybe games just aren't the medium for truly great stori

by Stark Tue May 20, 2014 2:22 pm

To the Moon and Gone Home if you haven't played as well catnip.
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Re: Maybe games just aren't the medium for truly great stori

by catnip Tue May 20, 2014 2:29 pm

Thanks for the recommendations - I'm an RPGM user myself, so I definitely wanna see what To the Moon is all about :)
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Re: Maybe games just aren't the medium for truly great stori

by CavZee Tue May 20, 2014 2:31 pm

Stark wrote:To the Moon and Gone Home if you haven't played as well catnip.

To the Moon is quite good, just wish it had a bit more "game" to it. Corpse Party is similar in that you just walk around and investigate/talk but I enjoyed it too.
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