AppleQueso wrote:Practically the entire golden age era of arcade games aren't "proper" games now? What the fuck?
Are you acting stupid on purporse? Golden era games were made during late 1970s and early 1980s. An atari 2600 cartridge has
4kb of memory. You cant judge games made under those circumstances by modern standards. If you compare those golden age arcade games with mid/late 1980s cosole and computer games, it's quite clear which has more substance. I seriously doubt that a game like Pacman, Space Invaders or Joust can you keep you entertained as long as a game like The Legend of Zelda, Ultima IV or Mega Man 2. That does not mean that those arcade games wouldn't be influental or that they're poorly designed, they are just very one dimensional compared to something like LOZ, U-IV/V, Phantasy Star or Wasteland.
AppleQueso wrote:Who cares about graphical style? I fail to see how being 2D and isometric lends to a drastically different gameplay experience than rendering models.
If you don't see any difference in gameplay between Baldur's Gate 2 and Mass Effect 2, then I don't know what to say
AppleQueso wrote:I'm sorry but it sounds to me like you're just repeatedly narrowing your criteria to try and make your point. "No that doesn't count it's based on a pre-existing IP." "No that doesn't count it's a download title", etc.
I've already explained why pre-existing IPs and downloadable games don't count. If I rephrase my argument "There is a lot less diversity in the physical market these days", would you be satisfied? You can make an indie game out of what ever you like and publish it online. That is way different than getting publisher to fund you and having your "unordinary" game being sold in stores. If industry veterans like Tim Schafer cant get money from publishers (a very small budget, mind you) because according to them "it is impossible to sell adventure games/insert genre here" in today's market then there clearly is a huge problem in today's physical/retail market.
When Metal Jesus interviewd Al Lowe, he (Al) stated "back then you couldn't sell a game if there already was a game like that out there. Now you cant sell a game if there already isn't another game like that" or something along those lines
Violent By Design wrote:Tthat is a really semantic complaint. Isometric RPG is not a genre, it is just an art preference.
It's not an art preference when it affects the level of depth gameplay mechanics have. In other words Skyrim is dumbed down, infinity engine games aren't. Is it possible to make a 3D RPG with real time combat that has as much gameplay depth as isometric RPG? Surely, you could say that MMORPGs have done it (EVE, World of Warcraft's high end PvE and arena exceed just about any traditional RPG in that regard) already. But at the moment being there really aren't any single player games like that out there.
Chris Avellone in a 1 UP interview1UP: Does an isometric perspective open up opportunities to do things that would be impossible or less effective in a first person or over-the-shoulder RPG?
Party-based combat, for certain. 3rd person and 1st person don't tend to allow for a lot of companions (trying to govern 5 people plus your PC in a 3rd or 1st person game usually means letting their AI run as it will). Also, the controller scheme for a console game doesn't tend to allow for it, either.
In the Infinity Engine games, you were able to guide and select a party to attack creatures and threats, and having that level of up-high-in-the-sky control and sense of tactics created for much different RPG fights and reminds me more of a pen-and-paper gaming session with tabletop miniatures.
Violent By Design wrote:None of those games you mentioned play anything like chess, and being isometric does not make the game require more strategy or even affects the gameplay at all necessarily. Ironically, strategy RPGs are more similar to chess.
Are you misunderstanding me on purporse? That's exactly what I'm saying FFS
Strategy RPGs still use isometric view because they are strategy games. Mainstream RPGs got rid the isometric perspective and became 3D to have a wider mass appeal. A strategy game is nothing if you remove the strategy aspect, while a story based RPG still has it's story even if you remove the strategy aspect. Therefore it's not a surprise that strategy RPGs still use isometric view. There aren't any isometric mainstream RPGs like Fallout, BG and PS:T anymore that focus on the story, characters and athmosphere. Strategy RPGs only focus on strategy while generally ignoring everything else, so if you'd like those chess like strategic battles but also a well written storyline and characters then you're out of luck since there aren't any games like that out there anymore.
Violent By Design wrote:Hm? I didn't say anything that implied COD's fanbase was creative in that paragraph. Didn't even mention creativity (why is creativity even relevant, again the discussion is basically branching off into everything you hate about the industry, rather than your original point).
Why are you paying attention to irrelevant things? You said that TF2 represents today's gaming culture just as much as COD does. I didn't try to deny that fact, I just said that difference between the two fanbases is that COD fans aren't creative like TF2 fans. If there's a "counter culture" to the COD cancer that is just as big, then surely it's a good thing? That means things aren't that bad after all. I guess I shouldn't attempt to give any merit to today's gaming culture at all then.
Violent By Design wrote:First off, way, way, way, way more people have TF2 via digital download then buying off the Orange Box. TF2 and Portal are legitimately popular because they're good games, not because they were add ons to Half Life 2.
I never said that TF2 or Portal are bad, Portal is one of my favorite games. Back in 2007 people bought Orange Box for one reason: Half Life 2 Episode 2. There's a huge number of fans who wanted to see how the Half Life story line continues. Not nearly as many people would've discovered Portal if it wasn't for the fact that it came free with the purchase of HL2E2. TF2 didn't become free to play untill 2011.
I know I would've never even heard about Portal if it hadn't been for Orange Box. Even wikipedia states the following
Portal was first released as part of The Orange Box for Microsoft Windows and Xbox 360 on October 9, 2007,[3][4] and for the PlayStation 3 on December 11, 2007.[7] The Windows version of the game is also available for download separately through Valve's content delivery system Steam[2] and was released as a standalone retail product on April 9, 2008.[9] In addition to Portal, the Box also included Half-Life 2 and its two add-on episodes, as well as Team Fortress 2. Portal's inclusion within the Box was considered an experiment by Valve; having no idea of the success of Portal, the Box provided it a "safety net" via means of these other games. Portal was kept to a modest length in case the game did not go over well with players.[34]
Violent By Design wrote:Out of curiosity, since you have turned this discussion into something much larger than your original point, what exactly is your point?
A situation where gaming is divided in to two groups, "retail games with high production values and zero originality" and "downloadable indie games that are (severely) limited but original and innovative" sucks, I miss that happy medium.
When things go download only, many Racketboy members will simply stop buying new games.
Violent By Design wrote:Because it has Portal on the list, the other games they mentioned are void?
I dont see why a list of adventure games should include a first person puzzle platform game in it.
Violent By Design wrote:I still have yet to see someone mention another generation that is more diverse when it comes to genres
PS1 release - the death of Dreamcast. You could probably cut a few years and say 1997-2001 and the statement would still be true.
Violent By Design wrote:FPS are not called fast pace by judging the rate of how fast a fictional character is moving. There is more to gameplay mechanics than the walking and jumping speed. COD you spawn near your opponents, you have guns that shred the other person's character, and deathmatch is usually the main objective of the game. Those make for fast pace elements.
Slow pace=America's Army
Normal pace=Counter Strike
Fast pace=Quake
It's true that maps are relatively small and players spawn quite near to each other in COD, but the gameplay is far from frantic most of the time.