The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
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Hazerd
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by Hazerd Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:19 pm

I dont support her cause, thats all i got to say.
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KDub
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by KDub Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:09 pm

Hazerd wrote:I dont support her cause, thats all i got to say.


I'll join you with that
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Gunstar Green
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by Gunstar Green Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:17 pm

It's not her cause that's a problem. Identifying and talking about inequity and offensive material is a noble goal.

Examining these things is a good thing. The way she often seems to vilify them and asks writers to completely do away with them in the name of political correctness without considering the context or artistic merit of a work is not. I like her message I just think her approach could use some work (or maybe not, the drama made her more visible than she could have ever hoped).

As others have said she's treating the symptoms instead of the disease. Media is a reflection of our culture, and if you look at television from the 50's and 60's compared to today it's a perfect example of how media changes as we do.

That said the people outright attacking her need to chill out, their insecurity is showing. All they did by going after her and being intentionally offensive was prove her point and give her more ammunition.
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by Erik_Twice Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:27 pm

Have to say that after being asked if I support equal rights right after clicking on that link and reading a prideful text box talking about her not only "winning" but "absolutedly destroying it" ,my interest on the topic plummeted.

I have also been told that she's really behind schedule when it comes to the videos she was being paid to make so dedicating her time to fight against internet shadows is by all means, silly and counterproductive. She has been flown over to talk with developers, have been in talks in a College and whatever but she has yet to make the videos. That's horribly unprofessional and painful, specially since it feeds common criticisims of her.

As I said before, the issue is not the topic itself, it's that it's being handled poorly.
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Violent By Design
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by Violent By Design Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:02 pm

Oh God, she got 150,000s for that? I certainly hope she at least uses a better camera than that with the money she's getting, not that I think she won't pocket it.

As someone looking to get into the film industry, I should certainly take note on how to raise money. :lol:

Nothing wrong with discussing sexism in gaming, but I don't get why she can't just make a web series with out raising so much money (and taking so much time). Why does she need money? It's a kickstart, so I can't fault her for getting 6 digits, but the people that gave her money are really naive. I hope most of the people who supported it were at least fellow woman.

I read the first page, and looked at the trailer thingie, and there was nothing even compelling about her argument. I mean it's not that she's wrong or anything, but she said nothing of interest, she didn't even make it seem like her videos would be well done (based on the 2010 tropes vs woman video) or unique, or even give any real interesting insight. The writing was just poorly done and the video was very amateurish, which makes me wonder what she's going to do with the extra money, she doesn't seem all that talented.


As for the issue at hand. She's going to have a field day picking out a lot of shitty female video game characters, because there are a lot of shitty video game characters in general.

Video gaming is still a new medium, and it's only really became mainstream with in the last 10 years (really a bit less than that), prior to that video games were just suppose to be for kids (or so the media would paint it as such). Storytelling in itself when it comes to video games are still juvenile and relatively young, but even worse than the plots in the video game is the characterization or lack of.

There are some games with good plots, even less games with good characters, and the vast majority of games with notable plots are niche games I would say. Most of the mainstream games, even the ones that are big budget triple A ones that revolve around a good story, really do not represent the pinnacle of the video game genre in regards to story telling, much less truly developed and thought provoking characters.

I haven't played a ton of video games, but if you asked me who my favorite character was, I would probably say someone one dimensional like Protoman. I would go out on a limb and say most people's favorite video game characters are shallow figures that can hardly even be called characters in the first place. Quite frankly, a lot of the games that tried to have real "human like" characters that I played failed in making that character interesting, or failed in even making the character really have depth.

So the question is, are there a lack of good female characters? Sure, but where are all the quality male characters? There aren't that many, and quite frankly, video games is a medium that does not require good characters, and it's went many years with out really having any (many more if we're just talking mainstream titles). So since it is not a necessity, there is little reason to have expectations of having all these fantastic characters, much less female ones.

And really, having a trope is not a bad thing. Nearly all male characters have tropes, you can find tropes in anything. It's hard to be totally original. For every stereotype she makes for a woman, I could think of one for a man.

Lastly, most video games are made by men and are sold to men. So naturally, video games will be more masculine, and there is less incentive to have more "good woman characters" (which I don't really get anyway, there seems to be this implication that because woman characters are in support roles, that makes them weak, which is ridiculous). If more woman bought video games, and more woman made video games, then there would probably be less things that would piss a feminist off. Supply and demand. Some video which consist of whining about why girl characters are crappy is not going to change the reality that there is no demand for better female characters.
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isiolia
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by isiolia Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:15 pm

Violent By Design wrote:So the question is, are there a lack of good female characters? Sure, but where are all the quality male characters? There aren't that many, and quite frankly, video games is a medium that does not require good characters, and it's went many years with out really having any (many more if we're just talking mainstream titles). So since it is not a necessity, there is little reason to have expectations of having all these fantastic characters, much less female ones.


The focus is not so much that female game characters aren't well written, but that they predominately conform to male fantasies.

It's a generalization all-around, since fantasy is an individual thing, but it's a valid point nonetheless.
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by BoneSnapDeez Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:19 pm

I really like Anita Sarkeesian, so I'm excited to see her new videos. Just wish she could release them a bit faster. 8)

Gunstar Green wrote:That said the people outright attacking her need to chill out, their insecurity is showing. All they did by going after her and being intentionally offensive was prove her point and give her more ammunition.


Yup.

I think it's hilarious how gross sexist neckbeards attempted to "rebut" Ms. Sarkeesian's thesis by providing her with even more evidence and proving her point in the most clarifying way possible.
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by AppleQueso Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:22 pm

BoneSnapDeez wrote:I really like Anita Sarkeesian, so I'm excited to see her new videos. Just wish she could release them a bit faster. 8)

Gunstar Green wrote:That said the people outright attacking her need to chill out, their insecurity is showing. All they did by going after her and being intentionally offensive was prove her point and give her more ammunition.


Yup.

I think it's hilarious how gross sexist neckbeards attempted to "rebut" Ms. Sarkeesian's thesis by providing her with even more evidence and proving her point in the most clarifying way possible.


In a nutshell, they think she's trying to take away their games and characters and whatnot. Their eye candy isn't going anywhere, they should probably calm down.
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by Nemoide Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:58 pm

I think Ms. Sarkeesian has already done pretty well at inspiring the gaming community to have serious conversations about gender politics.

I didn't back her Kickstarter, so I don't feel like she owes me the videos but I was certainly hoping that they would have been done sooner. Nonetheless, I'm sure her life's been twist-turned upside-down so I can understand her taking her time. I'm hoping for them early in the new year!
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Re: Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

by BoneSnapDeez Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:29 pm

Her Feminist Frequency YouTube vids are pretty good to hold you over in the meantime.
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