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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:55 am 
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Menegrothx wrote:
Oh yeah, this phenomenon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downshifting is also probably some way relevant to this topic. But I am sure its not just the young males who are into the downshifting thing.


And it's not just American young men, is it?


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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Well I don't know anyone like the author describes but I do know others in my situation. I had an extremely difficult time finding any work after getting my bachelors. I applied hundreds of places (this includes service jobs like retail stores and McDonalds) and very few places would even consider me.

I've just recently found full-time work, but it took two years to land something that could actually launch me into a career. I have to start from minimum wage and work my way up and probably go back to school to get specific things the job wants, which I don't mind, but I still can't support myself completely independently until I can earn a decent salary (due to loan payments).

I think a big problem is a lot of people in my situation (mistakenly) think they'll just be able to graduate from college and easily land a decent paying job and be able to do the whole 'American Dream' car/house thing which just isn't the case. Honestly, if I hadn't gone to college, I could afford an apartment right now, and that's probably true for a lot of college graduates, who are most likely bitter that going to college isn't showing them immediate results. (The whole expecting immediate gratification thing is a big problem with people my age)

I'm 24 and live with my father/mother/brother/sister, and my girlfriend lived with us until she was able to get a place with her aunt and we're all adults and we all pitch in to support each other, and since my parents always lived paycheck to paycheck, it's really helping them out. I haven't had anyone claim I'm lazy for still living with my family outside of the internet. Sometimes being a family and sticking together when times are tough is more important than independence.

Also, the masturbation instead of sex thing is just odd. Masturbation does not equates to sex, and pornography has been popular since long before the internet.

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Last edited by Czernobog on Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:17 pm 
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I read a page and a half, and it was more than enough. The quotes on the first page are the same shit I hear from the ritch, bitchy girls at school with post-2000 cars and designer backpacks. They don't have jobs. Their grades are horrible. They always expect the guy to pay. Yet, they are considered more successful than me, a high school student with straight A's coming from a family whose house cost less than her new car, who can't afford to pay for everything because he's already paying for gas. This girl insists you go to the $10 a head movie theatre, rather than the one you can get into for $5.50 just because it's "Not as high quality."

Lets say this girl finishes college and gets a job. Guess what? She's working for her rich Dad in some easy position. Someone like me, on the other hand, is pushing for a 3.5 in college, while working 3 jobs and getting half as much as this girl. She complains about how I don't let her be independent, telling me not to get the car door for her. She then immediately turns around and asks me to open the door at the restaraunt, claiming to the random strangers I 'have no manners'. She complains when I need to drop her off at her $1,000 a week apartment that she doesn't want me to go to my 3rd job, and that I should just blow it off to watch movies with her. I shake my head no, then shift my $750 piece of crap half-running-constanly-needs-repairs-truck into first, hoping the transmission doesn't fall out.


I am a man with goals. I try in school. I will be getting a job immediately after I get a licsense. And guess what? I don't even have a driver's licsense, and yet, girls make fun of me for being a virgin, never having a girlfriend. Not that I haven't tried. "You're not good looking, you're poor, you're too cheap for my tastes, you couldn't support me if something happened*, you're to country, you don't understand me!" All excuses I've heard, all from girls I later learn make D's and are living off their parents money.

*I don't even get this one. If I'm just asking you out on one date, is this really something you need to bring up right now?

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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:38 am 
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Czernobog wrote:
Honestly, if I hadn't gone to college, I could afford an apartment right now, and that's probably true for a lot of college graduates, who are most likely bitter that going to college isn't showing them immediate results.

How much does college education cost in the US? There are community colleges, are they free? I cant speak for all of Europe, but to my understanding the system is pretty similiar in all countries outside the UK. University and polytechnical education doesnt cost a dime, but you have to buy the books and stuff like that yourself. So pretty much any one can get any education, even PhD, if they want and are talented and motivated enough, for free. And there is some small financial assistance from the government, labeled student aid or something like that, to help you with the financial side, things like rent, food and school books. But still many students have to take a student loan, so they can focus on their education rather than exhausting themselves with working and studying simultaneously. But I doubt the student loans we have are anywhere near as big as the ones you take in the US, or am I mistaken?

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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am 
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Menegrothx wrote:
Czernobog wrote:
Honestly, if I hadn't gone to college, I could afford an apartment right now, and that's probably true for a lot of college graduates, who are most likely bitter that going to college isn't showing them immediate results.

How much does college education cost in the US? There are community colleges, are they free? I cant speak for all of Europe, but to my understanding the system is pretty similiar in all countries outside the UK. University and polytechnical education doesnt cost a dime, but you have to buy the books and stuff like that yourself. So pretty much any one can get any education, even PhD, if they want and are talented and motivated enough, for free. And there is some small financial assistance from the government, labeled student aid or something like that, to help you with the financial side, things like rent, food and school books. But still many students have to take a student loan, so they can focus on their education rather than exhausting themselves with working and studying simultaneously. But I doubt the student loans we have are anywhere near as big as the ones you take in the US, or am I mistaken?


Even though I received some amount of help from the government, my loans still came out to 50,000 US dollars after getting my Bachelors, and I worked the whole time I went. There are community colleges, and they are cheaper but not nearly free. They also (as far as I know) only allow you to get an Associates.

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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:42 am 
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At the University of Washington where I am a graduate student, the average undergraduate here will spend $10,000 on tuition each year with another $1000 for books & supplies if they are Washington resident. If they are a non-resident, then they will spend roughly $28,000 in tuition each year with the same $1000 for books & supplies.

I feel bad for them. It is ridiculously expensive compared to what I paid at the University of Utah as an undergrad back in the late 90s/early 00s. But the cost of tuition keeps rising as government pulls funding out of education.

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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:55 am 
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Menegrothx wrote:
How much does college education cost in the US? There are community colleges, are they free? I cant speak for all of Europe, but to my understanding the system is pretty similiar in all countries outside the UK. University and polytechnical education doesnt cost a dime, but you have to buy the books and stuff like that yourself. So pretty much any one can get any education, even PhD, if they want and are talented and motivated enough, for free. And there is some small financial assistance from the government, labeled student aid or something like that, to help you with the financial side, things like rent, food and school books. But still many students have to take a student loan, so they can focus on their education rather than exhausting themselves with working and studying simultaneously. But I doubt the student loans we have are anywhere near as big as the ones you take in the US, or am I mistaken?

I feel extremely bad for my American friends because I have never lived in a system where education costs more than one or two hundred bucks worth of books.
I simply don't understand what kind of arguments can be made in favor of privately paid education. Educating the next generation is a common interest and therefore should be a common expense. Can anyone argue with this, and how?
I sort of like the US as a country and have considered migrating, but I do know that should I ever have kids, I'm definitely raising them in Europe.


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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:42 am 
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Yeah, the cost is why I never went to college. Saw too many people get neck deep in debt with little to really show for it.

I'll go if/when I have a definite career path in mind, I figure.

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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:22 pm 
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eskil wrote:
Menegrothx wrote:
How much does college education cost in the US? There are community colleges, are they free? I cant speak for all of Europe, but to my understanding the system is pretty similiar in all countries outside the UK. University and polytechnical education doesnt cost a dime, but you have to buy the books and stuff like that yourself. So pretty much any one can get any education, even PhD, if they want and are talented and motivated enough, for free. And there is some small financial assistance from the government, labeled student aid or something like that, to help you with the financial side, things like rent, food and school books. But still many students have to take a student loan, so they can focus on their education rather than exhausting themselves with working and studying simultaneously. But I doubt the student loans we have are anywhere near as big as the ones you take in the US, or am I mistaken?

I feel extremely bad for my American friends because I have never lived in a system where education costs more than one or two hundred bucks worth of books.
I simply don't understand what kind of arguments can be made in favor of privately paid education. Educating the next generation is a common interest and therefore should be a common expense. Can anyone argue with this, and how?
I sort of like the US as a country and have considered migrating, but I do know that should I ever have kids, I'm definitely raising them in Europe.

And people make fun of us Americans for being dumb...

But, to a point, I think it is good education cost money. Its something that kinda relates to this article. It's one thing for a man to finish college. But a wholly different thing for the same man to finish college, while managing one or more jobs, a social life, various love intrests, and, in the case of many I know, children. I think that proves so much more in this day and age. People expect everything to be given to them now, and this is one way I believe helps people to be more self reliant. Get a job, get an education, get an even better job. Then, and only then, can you rest.

Meh. I'm happy. I can live off the land if things go south, and I'm too proud to be a beggar, so I guess I won't stop working until I'm dead.

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 Post subject: Re: The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:56 pm 
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But it doesn't necessarily teach people to be self reliant. It just makes it so the rich kids that have their parents pay for their college have an advantage over the students that have to juggle a job plus school. It creates a class divide and then everyone blames the poor for asking for handouts, when really they just wanted equal footing in the school system to their wealthy peers.

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