The Comic Book Thread

[Raging Justice]

I think what's interesting about the Joker is that he has a tendency to hurt Batman more than his other villains. He's done major damage to Batgirl and Jason Todd. I mean he literally KILLED Jason. Batman Return of the Joker Uncut is another great example

I also view Joker as the embodiment of chaos while Batman represents order. The Joker is fascinated by Batman because he wants to "break" him, and that doesn't just mean beating him or killing him. He wants Batman to lose it, go crazy, or just cross the line and kill someone (even if that's The Joker himself).

Not to get too evangelical, but some Christians view God as representing order and law. The Devil is chaos and corruption. That's sort of what Batman and The Joker represent. The Joker is a dark reflection of Batman. He's also what Batman could become if he let Gotham corrupt him, as the city does with everyone and everything that it touches.

There was an interesting episode of Batman the Animated Series that explored the idea that Batman is responsible for all the crazy villains in Gotham, but ultimately came to the opposite conclusion. THEY created HIM. However, the larger theme is that Batman always feels just a stone's throw away from becoming as insane as they are, and that's what the Joker wants. I think on some level, every Batman villain has a thematic element and represents something when compared to Batman. Scarecrow being an obvious one, he represents Batman's inner fears. Poison Ivy is temptation. Two Face can be seen as a play on Batman's own dual nature. This is why some people love Batman's rogues gallery so much. Hell, we even have an evil Batman in the form of Owlman. The Court of Owls to me is what happens when Gotham City itself becomes Batman's enemy, as in their mind they ARE Gotham and Batman is trying to throw his weight around on THEIR turf.

Anyway...let me take this in a less serious direction and post this for your viewing enjoyment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrJhGi1vUjo

[REPO Man]

One thing that irks me is that the folks in Gotham KNOW that if these villains get locked up, either in prison or Arkham, they're more than likely going to break out. This is literally a FACT. And yet, for all their crimes, a punishment that's tragically so easy to escape is hardly a punishment at all!

Interestingly, in a Batman/Harley Quinn story I'm toying around with, Harley calls Batman out on this and says that if he was raised as she was he'd be just as bad if not worse. Inversely, if she was raised as he was she'd be better than he ever could be. After this point, she produces a magical artifact that switches her and Bruce Wayne's circumstances. Now, she's Bianca Wayne and he's Charlie Quintzel. Like Harley, Bianca grew up to be a psychiatrist but unlike Harley, Bianca never fetishized criminals due to seeing her parents murdered by Joe Chill. Inversely, Charlie Quintzel grows up to be a world-class criminal. While he didn't have Bruce's advantages, Charlie did hone his abilities, both athletic and intellectual, and would continue to do so. Eventually, Gotham ends up in a golden age of sorts, one where Bianca has stomped out crime, not via vigilantism but by treating the criminal element as something she could cure. Eventually she hears of a major criminal taking over the underworld in Manhattan and seeks to cure this man. But as she dances with the devil, will she be able to take the lead or will he lead her down to hell?

Also, Charlie's in a throuple with Eddie Nygma and his gal-pal Pam Isley, albeit variants that don't become Riddler and Poison Ivy, respectively.

If this got a DTV animated adaptation I could totally see (or technically hear) AJ Michalka as Bianca, Cody Fern as Charlie (depending on if he can pull of a Bensonhurst accent), Whitney Peak as Pam and Noah Galvin as Eddie.

[joxey]

In a mystical twist of fate, Harley Quinn (now Bianca Wayne) and Batman (now Charlie Quintzel) find themselves in each other’s shoes. Their lives take divergent paths from the moment they step into their new identities. Bianca Wayne grows up with a burning desire to heal Gotham. Unlike her predecessor, she doesn’t don a cape or cowl. Instead, she becomes a brilliant psychiatrist, driven by empathy and a determination to cure the criminal mind. Her parents’ tragic murder fuels her resolve to eradicate crime at its root.

[Raging Justice]

The problem with the, "if we where in different shoes" argument is that It just becomes an excuse people use so that they don't have to change, and Harley has had multiple opportunities to do so, with Batman even trying to help her do so in Batman the Animated Series. She always CHOOSES to go back to crime, because Harley Quinn is not a good person. Batman could easily have used his parents deaths as an excuse to just become a criminal himself. Every super villain has some sob story that they use to justify their murderous behavior. Batman has one, but decided to become a hero

Human beings have free will and are responsible for their own actions. If some magic spell had Harley and Bruce switch roles, Harley would still become a criminal...at least she would if I was the author of the story. That would be the moral of my story. Harley and Bruce both chose to be what they are because of who they are deep down inside, regardless of their circumstances.

Harley could never be a better version of Batman because she lacks his drive, determination, will power, discipline, morals, and conviction.

[marurun]

Well, if they also swapped backgrounds the events they lived through would affect their personalities, so they might indeed make different choices. And the point of stories like that is speculation. Comics explore “what if” scenarios all the time. The key is to make characters be consistent in how they act differently. Look at the Superman story Red Son. He is still patriotic but for the USSR instead, and thus an agent of oppression instead.

[REPO Man]

Another what-if scenario I concocted was one where in Spider-Man, what if Aunt May was younger than Peter? The idea is that May Parker is now five years younger than her nephew, which let's be honest isn't the most outlandish take on the character. Here, they both get spider powers, but unlike in the original timeline, the line about how with great power comes great responsibility is more for the 10yo May Parker as opposed to Peter Parker, who despite being May's nephew plays a more big brother role.

I honestly think it'd be an interesting take on the characters of Aunt May and Peter Parker, mostly cuz one hardly ever gets stories involving niblings who are older than their aunts/uncles. Plus given how much of Peter Parker's backstory is built upon how his own recklessness and irresponsibility leading to one of the tragic moments in his life, it'd also be interesting to see how the story would differ if he was the selfless and responsible one.