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fuctfuct
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by fuctfuct Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:22 am

We do know that they knew nobody had PVMs. They knew nobody was going to be playing them on PVMs. They may very well have designed their games on PVMs or PC monitors, but not FOR them.
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Ziggy587
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by Ziggy587 Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:50 am

Genesis is a good example, where a lot of "effects" were done with the intention of being played on a CRT with RF or composite. And as much as I like using my PVM with RGB, I hate looking at these broken effects.

Like I said, I'll take composite on a CRT any day. And that's what I was doing for a while. But for some reason the SNES always has blown out reds and this was causing a lot of smearing for me. RGB on the PVM fixes this issue, but keeps everything else that I love about a CRT. This is only because my current setup requires a small CRT, and smaller sets generally only have composite. When I was using my larger CRTs, I had no problem with S-Video.
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by msimplay Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:02 pm

I would like to add CRTs in Pal territories like the UK and Europe already had RGB on their Consumer CRTs.
So personally I prefer composite on older consoles like Sega Saturn / PS1 and RGB scart on newer consoles like PS2 and Xbox.
The extra clarity helps alot on those consoles but on the older consoles they use dithering extensively so the composite cables provide a good upgrade for clarity and stereo sound from RF cables.
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fuctfuct
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by fuctfuct Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:17 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:Genesis is a good example, where a lot of "effects" were done with the intention of being played on a CRT with RF or composite. And as much as I like using my PVM with RGB, I hate looking at these broken effects.


Those effects have been fixed VIA HDMI on MiSTer FPGA. Also has decent overall CRT filter options. Not as good as Retroarch though :/

msimplay wrote:I would like to add CRTs in Pal territories like the UK and Europe already had RGB on their Consumer CRTs.


Yea.. but.. PAL.. hehe

I tend to change shaders a lot. Trying out new ones all the time. This is the one I used playing TMNT the other night. It's a bit too clean looking, like a PVM, but I enjoyed it.
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Ziggy587
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by Ziggy587 Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:34 pm

Did consumer TVs in Japan in the 90's generally have RGB inputs? Because most video games in the 90's were being developed by Japan.
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by fuctfuct Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:38 pm

I don't know for sure but i watch a few retro gamers on YouTube in Japan. They never mention it.

I've actually been watching a few vids of people modding NA TVs for RGB.. doesn't even look that hard.

This guy did a Disney TV lol.

https://www.youtube.com/c/SegaHolic/videos

Warning: I find his content fantastic but video style extremely annoying.
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by msimplay Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:52 pm

fuctfuct wrote:
Those effects have been fixed VIA HDMI on MiSTer FPGA. Also has decent overall CRT filter options. Not as good as Retroarch though :/


Kind of fixed the Mister itself doesn't support the filter with other cores.
I like to use composite with many retro consoles and Sorlig prefers it is RGB scart or HDMI.

Also the Mister doesn't support 32x just yet either.

Also nothing else outside of Mister Genesis core support's composite blending that looks as authentic
That means no emulators nor other Mister cores.

So kinda fixed but Sorlig doesn't like it himself.

I personally would like the cores to support composite on a hardware level but thats a different story.

Output to TV is currently RGB scart only and the rest are converters.
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by marurun Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:38 pm

fuctfuct wrote:We do know that they knew nobody had PVMs. They knew nobody was going to be playing them on PVMs. They may very well have designed their games on PVMs or PC monitors, but not FOR them.


But if those are the tools they are using to design the game's graphics, and if they're not doing tons of testing on "regular" CRTs, then they're only designing for an abstract target.
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by marurun Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:41 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:Did consumer TVs in Japan in the 90's generally have RGB inputs? Because most video games in the 90's were being developed by Japan.


Some did. And there were even some PCs and TVs that had built-in NES, PC Engine, or even Mega Drive units, so you could end up playing them on a nicer screen, even a PC-style monitor, with an RGB-style connection. And then there was the LaserActive... Sure, it supported composite, but if you owned that LD player, you were not playing via composite. See also the PC Engine GT which had an LCD screen rather than a CRT. So even though those are edge cases, they're official, supported edge cases, which further cements the idea that there really wasn't a single target developers were all developing for.
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Re: What exactly IS that "original hardware feeling" to you?

by msimplay Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:49 pm

marurun wrote:So even though those are edge cases, they're official, supported edge cases, which further cements the idea that there really wasn't a single target developers were all developing for.



Majority had consumer crts so it would make sense that they produced games for it as that was the primary audience.

I put it that was because official cables given with consoles were likely RF.
Even the Snes used some dithering for transparencies and shading

I'm pretty sure most consoles of the day came with RF and Composite.

The edge case would be the Mega PC or The Pioneer Laser Active.

To say the developers didn't have a single target is just confusion in my opinion.

edit:

Also the advantage of the Consumer CRT over the PVM is also screen size I have a 30 inch CRT
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