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PresidentLeever
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Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by PresidentLeever Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:50 pm

Edit:
I ended up moving the pages to their own site and have made some major updates since. For those not checking the Guide subforum regularly:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=53219&p=1159007#p1159007

Direct link to the site: https://worldsunraveled.weebly.com/

Category lists:
TD & Isometric (+tilted view): https://worldsunraveled.weebly.com/list ... --iso.html
FP & TP: https://worldsunraveled.weebly.com/list ... p--tp.html
Side view (for the most part): https://platformadventure.weebly.com/list-format.html
Last edited by PresidentLeever on Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:45 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by MrPopo Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:55 pm

How are you defining ARPG? Because I'm seeing several on there that I would not call an ARPG.
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Re: Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by Ack Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:59 pm

Yeah, it's a tough genre to define. I have seen Secret of Mana, Diablo, and Legend of Zelda all claimed as Action RPGs at different times.
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Re: Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by PresidentLeever Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:06 pm

MrPopo wrote:How are you defining ARPG? Because I'm seeing several on there that I would not call an ARPG.


This is gonna sound dumb but I'm not 100% sure myself. What I stated on the parent page to this one was this (in regards to AA and ARPG, not one or the other):
"I'm going with The Legend of Zelda, Ys I, Solstice, Ultima Underworld, Landstalker, Secret of Mana, System Shock and Diablo as the main codifiers for these genres and comparing each game to the features listed on the front page. "

Out of those I would count Ys, Secret of Mana, Diablo and perhaps Ultima Underworld as ARPGs, the last of which I've only tried briefly and that was years ago. I am not sure where exactly to draw the line between ARPG and RPG, besides real-time gameplay obviously.
The reason I grouped them together was that I think there's a lot of overlap between them and I see people calling some games like Zelda one or the other interchangeably.
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Re: Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by Ack Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:19 pm

Hmm, Ultima Underworld is definitely a real-time take on a dungeon crawler. Perhaps another important element is whether there is a party involved? Because something like Eye of the Beholder or Menzoberranzen are mostly real time too, but I don't think they'd be what you think of.
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Re: Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by PresidentLeever Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:03 pm

Right, and EotB and similar (which I've listed a few of as outliers) have P&C interfaces and tile-based movements so that's another pretty big difference. I think UU had a mix of P&C and hotkeys for actions? Or is that just System Shock?

Secret of Mana (and for example Sorcerian) are also party-based, so I'm not sure that should be disqualifying in itself.
Edit: But in EotB it's more involved since you control the whole party in combat, I guess that's a main difference too.

I added the early Tomb Raiders as outliers based on them being level-based and linear in the overarching structure.
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Re: Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by MrPopo Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:51 pm

So the reason I asked was you have things like Wizardry and Ultima which are very much turn based.
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Re: Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by PresidentLeever Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:00 pm

K I guess that segment could've used a disclaimer. I listed some early RPGs as forerunners and later (1986 onwards) as outliers since they influenced the genres, but they are not meant to be seen as AA or ARPG games.

The full pages list subgenres, perspective and some other basic info for each game (more for the games I've played properly). But it is early WIP.
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Re: Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by marurun Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:27 pm

Stuff like Zelda is also tough, because there’s progression of power (hearts, stronger swords and armor [not many gradients, though]), but that progression operates differently from most RPGs, which have item and level-based progression with many more steps along the way. I think Zelda and it’s ilk are safe to include as long as your definition of ARPGs is broad enough to include them but not so broad as to be uselessly vague.
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Re: Other notable Action Adventure and ARPG games (80s-90s)?

by PresidentLeever Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:53 pm

Yeah. I mean it becomes functionally very similar if you compare exp point grinding to ginding for money that then lets you buy stat upgrades (or better gear that lead to them, under the hood).
But for say heartpieces in Zelda (besides hearts gained from bosses), it's more like you're usually just exploring on your own and happen upon them, rather than being on a quest that has a reward after you return something to a quest giver (and while doing it you probably leveled up vs enemies as well). Not that Zelda doesn't also have quests, that was something they kept adding more of as the series went on.

I wanna say ARPGs fall back more on "you can always grind to be able to crush this next part" whereas in an AA you'd generally have to explore and maybe solve some puzzle to gain the upgrades to achieve the same goal (for example, finding a bottle is almost equivalent to doubling your HP), but I haven't really investigated this in detail.

Well, I think I at least have enough of a grasp to separate what the average fan wouldn't be as interested in from the main lists, and the info on each game will help guide them further if that's not enough.
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