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PretentiousHipster
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by PretentiousHipster Fri May 08, 2020 3:32 pm

PresidentLeever wrote:Is Nuts & Bolts as much of a metroidvania-style game as Tooie is?


In nuts and bolts you build and ride vehicles.
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by PresidentLeever Fri May 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Right, so it's like Blaster Master? :P

Looking it up it seems like mainly a mini-game compilation with pretty in-depth vehicle customization, besides the hub world. So the answer is no.
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opa
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by opa Sat May 09, 2020 7:35 pm

I want to give up on the Uncharted 1 remake on PS4. My first exposure to Uncharted was trying out the vita game when it was free on PS Plus. I deleted that crap in fifteen minutes. Fast forward some time later and I get a PS4 to play The Last Guardian. Uncharted 4 was bundled with my system. I was skeptical but after beating TLG I didn't have anything else to play so I gave Uncharted 4 a go. Holy crap was it a great game!
A couple of weeks ago Sony gave away Journey and the Uncharted Collection as free downloads. I was excited to try out the games I had missed. Uncharted 1 is kind of boring. You move twelve feet, shoot the same 5 to 10 goons (who take way too many bullets to die), climb a wall, repeat. Maybe the games get better as the series goes along? I loved Uncharted 4: you could usually approach the enemies in head-on fights or do sneak attacks and play it more of an Assassin's Creed type game.
I do want to see what happens in the story but I may just leave this one alone for now and play a game that's... fun.
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by pook99 Sat May 09, 2020 8:49 pm

Developers are always in a catch -22 situation with established IP's. Do you just make the same game over and over to please the fans? When do you try something new? When does the old formula get stale?

Resident Evil 4 is a good example of a series being updated under perfect conditions, RE 1-3 were all good games but they were getting stale so capcom tried something new and it worked, extremely well, blowing up the franchise and making RE4 one of the best and most renowned games of all time.

I think developers have to do this which is why I reject people who say x game is not part of the series because it plays different than its predecessors. Can you imagine a world where super mario 64 was a 2d platformer? Ocarina of time was an overhead adventure game? Metroid Prime is a sidescroller game like super metroid? All of those series had to overhaul in a big way and that is why all of them are relevant today. Eventually a game has to change or fans will inevitably lose interest. The workaorund is to take a huge hiatus and make a game 10 years later (ie: Mega Man 9-11)

That is why I tend to like the oddball games, Prfsnl_gamer brought up other M as an example of a game we both enjoyed. That game got wayyyy too much undeserved flack, the fact is Other M was a game that merged the old style of metroid with some very excting new conventions and introduced a real story for the first time in the series. IMO, a game like that is far more interesting than if Nintendo just made a Metroid Prime 4. Sure we are all excited about it now(see above hiatus rule) but if it came out when Other M did I'm sure it would have received critcism for just being more of the same.
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by Sload Soap Sat May 09, 2020 9:10 pm

opa wrote:I want to give up on the Uncharted 1 remake on PS4. My first exposure to Uncharted was trying out the vita game when it was free on PS Plus. I deleted that crap in fifteen minutes. Fast forward some time later and I get a PS4 to play The Last Guardian. Uncharted 4 was bundled with my system. I was skeptical but after beating TLG I didn't have anything else to play so I gave Uncharted 4 a go. Holy crap was it a great game!
A couple of weeks ago Sony gave away Journey and the Uncharted Collection as free downloads. I was excited to try out the games I had missed. Uncharted 1 is kind of boring. You move twelve feet, shoot the same 5 to 10 goons (who take way too many bullets to die), climb a wall, repeat. Maybe the games get better as the series goes along? I loved Uncharted 4: you could usually approach the enemies in head-on fights or do sneak attacks and play it more of an Assassin's Creed type game.
I do want to see what happens in the story but I may just leave this one alone for now and play a game that's... fun.


They do get better as they go along. I played the first three on the PS3 and the combat definitely does improve but for me it goes from godawful to competent to pretty good. At no point though did I find those games, and the Last of Us, to actually have mechanically engaging combat. It's more about the spectacle. But if you enjoyed Uncharted 4 then I would give the others a go.
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by prfsnl_gmr Sat May 09, 2020 10:50 pm

pook99 wrote:Developers are always in a catch -22 situation with established IP's. Do you just make the same game over and over to please the fans? When do you try something new? When does the old formula get stale?

Resident Evil 4 is a good example of a series being updated under perfect conditions, RE 1-3 were all good games but they were getting stale so capcom tried something new and it worked, extremely well, blowing up the franchise and making RE4 one of the best and most renowned games of all time.

I think developers have to do this which is why I reject people who say x game is not part of the series because it plays different than its predecessors. Can you imagine a world where super mario 64 was a 2d platformer? Ocarina of time was an overhead adventure game? Metroid Prime is a sidescroller game like super metroid? All of those series had to overhaul in a big way and that is why all of them are relevant today. Eventually a game has to change or fans will inevitably lose interest. The workaorund is to take a huge hiatus and make a game 10 years later (ie: Mega Man 9-11)

That is why I tend to like the oddball games, Prfsnl_gamer brought up other M as an example of a game we both enjoyed. That game got wayyyy too much undeserved flack, the fact is Other M was a game that merged the old style of metroid with some very excting new conventions and introduced a real story for the first time in the series. IMO, a game like that is far more interesting than if Nintendo just made a Metroid Prime 4. Sure we are all excited about it now(see above hiatus rule) but if it came out when Other M did I'm sure it would have received critcism for just being more of the same.


+1

Now...if only we could get Contra to take a step in the right direction...
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by marurun Sun May 10, 2020 9:55 am

I feel like run and gun is such a simple model it would be hard to alter without taking dramatic steps. I mean, in terms of core game mechanics, Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, and Hard Corps already have advanced the 2D model quite a bit. In the 3D space it may be Treasure who has come closest (again) with Sin & Punishment.
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by PresidentLeever Sun May 10, 2020 10:58 am

Vanquish was basically a 3D run 'n gun besides some arena segments and being able (but not always encouraged) to take cover. Maybe it didn't have respawning enemies, it's been a while but it was hectic enough. If it was more faitfhul it'd probably get slack for not making enough use of the 3D aspect. Story was meh and it could've been more colorful but I had a great time with it overall.
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by o.pwuaioc Sun May 10, 2020 11:31 am

pook99 wrote:Developers are always in a catch -22 situation with established IP's. Do you just make the same game over and over to please the fans? When do you try something new? When does the old formula get stale?

Resident Evil 4 is a good example of a series being updated under perfect conditions, RE 1-3 were all good games but they were getting stale so capcom tried something new and it worked, extremely well, blowing up the franchise and making RE4 one of the best and most renowned games of all time.

I think developers have to do this which is why I reject people who say x game is not part of the series because it plays different than its predecessors. Can you imagine a world where super mario 64 was a 2d platformer? Ocarina of time was an overhead adventure game? Metroid Prime is a sidescroller game like super metroid? All of those series had to overhaul in a big way and that is why all of them are relevant today. Eventually a game has to change or fans will inevitably lose interest. The workaorund is to take a huge hiatus and make a game 10 years later (ie: Mega Man 9-11)

That is why I tend to like the oddball games, Prfsnl_gamer brought up other M as an example of a game we both enjoyed. That game got wayyyy too much undeserved flack, the fact is Other M was a game that merged the old style of metroid with some very excting new conventions and introduced a real story for the first time in the series. IMO, a game like that is far more interesting than if Nintendo just made a Metroid Prime 4. Sure we are all excited about it now(see above hiatus rule) but if it came out when Other M did I'm sure it would have received critcism for just being more of the same.


I don't care about labels and whatnot, but 3D Zelda is not the same as 2D Zelda, 3D Metroid is not the same as 2D Metroid, 3D Mario is not the same as 2D Mario. And yeah, I can imagine a world where both exist, because both do exist. While the N64 and GameCube were putting out 3D versions of the games, the handhelds were doing just fine with 2D through that same time. Consider the timeline:

Both Ocarina of Time and Link's Awakening DX were released in 1998
Oracle of Ages/Seasons was released one year after Majora's Mask (2000 & 2001 respectively)
Both Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion were released

On the Wii, you even have both a 2D and a 3D Mario (Galaxy and NSMB, the latter is the vastly superior game imo)
Donkey Kong Country went back to 2D after the N64 game, and is far better than DK64. Mortal Kombat 9 finally saw a revival of the awful 3D MK games.

I feel that this obsession with trying to make an IP fit all genres or get current with the times is what actually leads to awful games. It's why there has never been a good 3D Sonic game. Sometimes it works, more often it doesn't, but when it does work, it's because they radically changed the concept so that they really are different kinds of games. Just because someone likes 2D Metroid doesn't mean they will automatically like 3D Metroid if the gameplay, not the aesthetic, is what made them like it in the first place. They don't play anything alike.

I didn't like the Banjo Kazooie games at all, but I can see why players might dismiss Nuts and Bolts if they were looking for similar gameplay to the original series. No game is owed someone liking it.

Also, re: Mega Man 9-11, do remember that the Mega Man series continued their success in the 2D world throughout the 90s and 00s with the Mega Man X series. And Mega Man X4, which ought to be stale by your standards, far outsold Mega Man Legends. The better game is the game that kept true to the formula and polished, not jumped onto the latest fad.
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Re: Games You Gave Up On 2020

by pook99 Sun May 10, 2020 2:19 pm

@apwuoic: Yes, things can coexist but if a game does not adapt it will frequently die out, this is not just exclusive to retro games, newer games fall victim to the same thing, which is why so many modern gamers complain about the yearly releases of once fresh IP's ( assasins creed for example), fanservice is important, but you can't typically exist on just fan service.

You brought up the wii with Mario galaxy and new super mario bros, I think that is a good example of exactly what I am talking about for a few reasons:

1) New super mario was wildly successful, but it had been years since a 2d mario released on a home console, in between mario world and NSMB we got mario 64, sunshine, and galaxy. At that point 2d mario had seen enough of a hiatus to bring it back

2) Having said that, NSMB is a good example of fan burnout, when it came out on the wii it was fresh and exciting but many fans and critics have since complained about how samey the series has become with all the versions of it

3) Mario Galaxy was also there to push the series forward, keeping the franchise relevant, I know you said you prefer NSMB, and that is fine, it is a fantastic game, but the vast majority of fans hold galaxy 1 and 2 as the best games in the series and it is held in a much higher regard than NSMB.

Do you think that if NSMB was released on the N64 it would have been as well recieved as it was? Do you think it would have been as successful as Mario 64?

I do agree with you that many series fail when they try and transition into something new, which is probably the reason why so many IP's eventually die out. Sonic is a good example of a series which has still not found its footing and floundered for years. A series, when it is updated well, tends to keep the "spirit" (for lack of a better word) of its source material. You said that someone who likes 2d metroid may not enjoy 3d metroid, and I agree, but I would argue the vast number of metroid fans enjoy the prime series because, despite a radical shift in just about everything, it kept the spirit of what makes a metroid game a metroid game.

As for MMX4, it may have been well received and may have outsold legends, but X5, X6, and MM8 were universally panned, I enjoyed them but it does further demonstrate the point that fans will get burnt out on something if it does not evolve. I personally am the type of gamer who can play a game series he likes forever. I have played all 11 mainline mega man games and at least a dozen fan games and romhacks, as well as games inspired by mega man. I literally cant get enough, but I do not speak for the majority, the fact is, and this is a fact because we see it time and time and time again, if a series does not try and do something different, enough fans will lose interest to hurt sales, causing the series to die out.
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