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noiseredux
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Sequels that make earlier games feel obsolete

by noiseredux Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:16 am

Do you guys have this thing, too? There are some games where a newer iteration makes me feel like there's no point in playing the older one anymore. Something like Mario Kart 8. For yearssssssssss Double Dash was my favorite Mario Kart game, but I feel like 8 sort of makes it so if I'm in the mood for Mario Kart, why would I play any other game? (To be fair, I guess I could see an argument for playing the SNES game since it feels very different). Maybe a better example is Smash Bros. Given the roster of Ultimate, I can't see any reason why I'd want to play the original N64 game. Things like that.
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Ack
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Re: Sequels that make earlier games feel obsolete

by Ack Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:31 am

Well, I'll go with perhaps the most obvious example I can think of: Street Fighter, Street Fighter II, and Street Fighter II Turbo. There is no reason I can think of to ever go check out the original game, especially not after the sequel was released. But then that was topped with Turbo to the point I don't want to ever go back to the base release of II.
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PresidentLeever
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Re: Sequels that make earlier games feel obsolete

by PresidentLeever Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:33 am

If the prequel was great then it's rarely the case for me unless the sequel also features pretty much the same content like songs, locations, characters etc along with the new stuff.

Edit:
Super Mario Bros. - A bit hard to go back to for me now due to better controls and more interesting mechanics in SMB3 etc., but the level design and songs are still great and I like Mario's look here.

Fantasy Zone - Feel like both 2 and Super are better balanced, though the bosses and aesthetics are still cool here.

Dune 2 and Warcraft 1 - Better controls and interface as well as more interesting levels in C&C/WC2 onwards. There's also Dune 2000 which is mostly a good update to 2. WC1 doesn't look that good either so I don't miss that part, but the OST is pretty nice - a remake would be cool.

Mega Man - In this case I think I'd go back to the Wily Wars ver. instead, though the music is somewhat disappointing overall.


Games where I think the prequel(s) was less than great anyway:
Wonder Boy - While I don't mind a more straightforward approach in this and Monster Lair, later games have better controls, more interesting mechanics and better difficulty balancing.

Castlevania - I was gonna say these but with the control hacks I can go back to 1 and 3. So just 2 then. Later games are a lot more atmospheric and aesthetically pleasing to me though.

The Legend of Zelda - Just doesn't have much of what I like about Zelda besides the non-linearity (which was nerfed more and more in sequels), and with a static difficulty it doesn't quite reach its potential.

Metroid 1-2 - Since weapon and suit toggling can be added and the standing chozo statues removed with a hack (ZM) and since AM2R I'll just replay those versions instead.

Shinobi (ARC) - Mainly because credits stop working towards the end and the bonus levels are frustratingly hard. 1 has a nice speed and intensity to it though (which the SMS ver. lacks), and a cool OST.

Phantasy Star - Don't really have much fun with 1-3 gameplay-wise, so I'll revisit those via YT. Perhaps with the exception of the Switch ver. of 1.

The Goonies II - 1 is kinda fun for 10 minutes or so but this, while still flawed, expanded on it a lot and still has that Lauper song.

RoboWarrior/Bomber King - Better level design, bosses overall and you can move backwards in the GB sequel. It also has pretty much the same OST.

Commando and other early top down run 'n guns - If there's no dodge or strafe move I'm probably not going back.

Ghosts 'n Goblins - Random respawning is interesting in theory but doesn't really work for me the way they do it here, and everything else is better in the sequels.

Aleste/Power Strike - Pretty nice 80s aesthetics here but the sequels are more interesting and better balanced.

Langrisser 2 - More customization, better difficulty curve, more variety and some AI improvements. Still it would be nice to have the L1 songs in it for variety. I believe later versions of L1 use the L2 or Der Langrisser engine.

Dragon Quest 1-2 vs DQ III (SNES ver.) - Better interface, customization, combat, music, balance between story and exploration and in the SNES ver., much better visuals.

RC Pro-Am - 2-4 player vs., customization via shops, and IIRC better balanced AI in the sequel. Althought R'nR Racing kind of obsoletes that one as well, maybe.

The Ninja Warriors - Was rather simplistic even for the time, besides the great OST. The lack of 2-player in the sequel was a shame but seems fixed in the remake.

Twinbee 1-2 - 3 is a lot more fun and aesthetically pleasing to me.
Last edited by PresidentLeever on Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:51 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Sequels that make earlier games feel obsolete

by pook99 Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:45 am

I'm sure there are tons of examples but only for specific genres. For any level based game it is nearly impossible for a sequel to make the original obsolete, so for example as good as Castlevania 3 is, I still like to play castlevania 1 because it is a different experience. Having said that some genres I can think of where this applies:

1) sports games, although I don't play sports games I would assume there is no reason to play madden 99 if madden 00 exists, and while I am sure there are counter examples this seems to work here.

2) Certain fighting games, SSFT turbo > all other versions of street fighter 2, Ultra street fighter 4 is superior to all versions of street fighter 4. So stuff like that, this does not apply to all fighting games by any stretch but it is a genre where it will likely apply.

3) Certain puzzle games, like I know new versions of tetris are the same game with new enhancements and often have a classic mode rendering the original versions obsolete.

I'm sure there is more I am not thinking of
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Re: Sequels that make earlier games feel obsolete

by noiseredux Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:51 am

pook99 wrote: For any level based game it is nearly impossible for a sequel to make the original obsolete, so for example as good as Castlevania 3 is, I still like to play castlevania 1 because it is a different experience.


absolutely!

1) sports games, although I don't play sports games I would assume there is no reason to play madden 99 if madden 00 exists, and while I am sure there are counter examples this seems to work here.


I don't entirely agree. To use the Madden example, going from generation to generation there are differences in engines that still keep certain older titles interesting and different enough for me. So I might be in the mood for a modern Madden, or I might be in the mood for a 90's Madden and they feel like different games.

You could probably also argue that rosters could make older titles more appealing to some fans.

2) Certain fighting games, SSFT turbo > all other versions of street fighter 2, Ultra street fighter 4 is superior to all versions of street fighter 4. So stuff like that, this does not apply to all fighting games by any stretch but it is a genre where it will likely apply.


Yup! I agree with you and Ack on this. I remember re-playing vanilla Street Fighter 4 last year and being pretty meh on it compared to the updates.

3) Certain puzzle games, like I know new versions of tetris are the same game with new enhancements and often have a classic mode rendering the original versions obsolete.


Pretty much agree. I grew up on GB Tetris, and have played lots of iterations over the years. I've spent something like 150 hours on Tetris 99 this year, and it doesn't give me an itch to go back and play the GB cart. I'm really content with this new iteration and its various features. (The GB skin helps, too).
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pook99
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Re: Sequels that make earlier games feel obsolete

by pook99 Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:03 am

yeah, I'm completely ignorant on sports games but I can see where your analogy makes sense. Using fighting games as an example, Ultra street fighter 4 may make regular street fighter 4 obsolete, but it does not make street fighter alpha 3 obsolete because they are running on entirely different engines.

Is there a case to be made that, rosters aside, some sports games make their immediate predeccesor obsolete? So for example, you said that sometimes you may want to play modern madden vs something like 90's madden, which are clearly different kinds of games. But is there a case where something like madden 95 makes madden 94 obsolete?
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Re: Sequels that make earlier games feel obsolete

by stickem Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:54 pm

People that buy new sports games want updated rosters, the rookies, breakout stars, and updated stats. You have trades, free agency, retiring etc. I'm sure if you're not a sports fan you could care less. That's the reason I buy them anyway.
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Re: Sequels that make earlier games feel obsolete

by MrEco Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:14 pm

Personally Doom 2 obsoletes Doom 1. It's not really a huge leap in quality, more to do with how similar they are. Doom 2 is basically the same game but with new levels that still have the same feel, a wider variety of enemies, and a super shotgun. Why would I ever want to go back to playing without the super shotgun?

Witcher 3 almost obsoletes Witcher 2. The one thing I think Witcher 2 really has going for it is it's story. It has a very well written plot that's still enjoyable and definitely worth playing the game for. And the different choices you can make to change the outcome of that plot makes it worth playing again. But I can't really say the same of the gameplay. Everything is so much better in Witcher 3. Exploration, quest design, combat, music. Honestly it's a struggle to validate playing a 40-60 hour RPG just for the plotline, so I'd say Witcher 2 is right on the edge of being obsolete. Witcher 1 is not however, it's still amazing and so unique.

King's Field 4: The Ancient City obsoletes King's Field 1 and 2. Honestly it kinda hurts to say this. I loved King's Field 4 and was excited to go back and play the older games in the series. But I ended up only disappointed. I put 10+ hours into both games and couldn't muster up enough interest to finish them. KF4 has much improved controls and vastly better level design. Truly the thing that sapped away my interest in those games was just how bland, repetitive, and lifeless the environments felt. KF4 had really good art and sound direction that managed to make environments with no NPC's at all still feel like living places where you could feel nature around you and see the evidence of people who had been there before. KF1 and 2 were just dead. Here's hoping KF3 does a bit better, I haven't played that one yet.

Last, maybe this is cheating since the two aren't actually in the same series but it's a thought I've had for a long time, Shadow of the Colossus obsoletes Titan Souls. Titan Souls is a 2D indie game about exploring a game world filled with ancient ruins that have been overgrown with nature to hunt down and fight a series of bosses. The bosses play out more like puzzles than typical fights, with the trick being that you have to find their weak point to kill them. Basically it's 2D Shadow of the Colossus. The main difference being that in SotC you climb up the monsters and stab them with a sword, and in Titan Souls you shoot their weak point with an arrow. Personally I found myself bored playing Titan Souls and constantly thinking "Why don't I just play SotC again?" The concept is so similar, but the huge beautiful 3D environments of SotC are so much more fun to explore. Also the faster pace of Titan Souls made it rather frustrating at times. It's mechanics made it feel like a puzzle game, but one where you can die in a matter of seconds and have to walk back to the boss arena each time you mess up the puzzle. Not fun for me.
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Re: Sequels that make earlier games feel obsolete

by Ziggy587 Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:50 am

MrEco wrote:Why would I ever want to go back to playing without the super shotgun?


Because John Romero released Sigil ! https://www.romerogames.ie/si6il

But seriously, even before the release of Sigil, I've always enjoyed playing The Ultimate DOOM as much as I do DOOM II.
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