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pierrot
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Re: Rate the series - Contra

by pierrot Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:47 pm

Yeah, good question. The liner notes just say that he used 5-8 FM channels, and 2 PCM channels. Doesn't mention whether there was any sort of mastering after the fact, for the OST release.
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Xeogred
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Re: Rate the series - Contra

by Xeogred Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:19 pm

I'm just going to do some Top 4's.

Classicvania:
- Rondo of Blood
- Bloodlines
- Super CV4
- Chronicles

Igavania:
- Order of Ecclesia
- Symphony of the Night
- Aria of Sorrow
- Circle of the Moon

Contra:
- Hard Corps
- Contra III
- Contra
- Super C

All of these are top tier in my book and if someone likes one per list, they should play all the others!

By the way I just beat Contra Rebirth tonight, it was pretty solid but running solo Normal/Default 3 stock made stage 3 and the final boss a royal pain. It took 59 minutes and half of that was probably just on those two parts. Overall a fun quick romp though, think I liked it more than Castlevania Rebirth.

And I don't really want to throw Bloodstained Curse and Ritual in those lists, but yeah I would say they're just as good and might like Ritual even more than some of those Igavania favorites of mine. Incredible stuff and I hope we get more Bloodstained in the future.
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Re: Rate the series - Contra

by pook99 Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:53 am

@Partridge: Good to know, I have never played curse of darkness, have always wanted to, but figured it would not be worth my time, I don't know when I'm going to play it but you definitely inspired me to put it on my bucket list.

@xeograd: glad to see chronicles getting some love, its a great game that rarely gets appreciated. As much as I love contra rebirth I do think the final boss is a bit of a low point, in general I hate levels that go upside down and invert controls(with gravity mans stage in Mega Man 5 being an odd exception) and fighting a last boss upside down and sideways is just really annoying.
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Re: Rate the series - Contra

by pook99 Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:48 am

Next topic: Double Dragon

This is going to be a tough one, Double Dragon is the game that really birthed the beat em up genre and has gone through a ton of iterations. What makes this such a unique game is that different ports of the same game were often completely different. So for example, the arcade original double dragon was completely different then its NES port, which was different from the master system port, which was different than the game boy port, which was different than the atari 2600 port and I am sure there are several versions I don't even know about.

Double Dragon was an extraordinarily popular game that received tons of sequels and different ports, I will write a list but I am sure that it is not comprehensive and am sure that most of us have never played all of these games.

Also, we will only be looking at double dragons that are beat em ups so I am going to exclude the craptacular double dragon V and the amazing neo geo double dragon from the list since they really can't be directly compared. I will also leave out direct ports, so for example, although it was handled poorly, the genesis version is a port of the arcade so we will not discuss it here. So having said all that here is a list of double dragon games that are up for rating, as usual, only rate the ones you played and feel free to add if I leave something out.

Double Dragon (arcade)
DOuble Dragon (NES)
Double Dragon (SMS)
DOuble Dragon (Atari 2600)
Double Dragon (gameboy)
Double Dragon advance (GBA)
Double Dragon 2 (arcade)
Double Dragon 2 (NES)
Double Dragon 2 (turbo/super cd)
Double Dragon 2 (game boy)
Double Dragon 3 (arcade)
Double Dragon 3 (nes)
Double Dragon 3( game boy)
Double Dragon 4
SUper Double Dragon (SNES)
Return of the Dragon (super famicom)
Double Dragon Neon
Double Dragon 2: wander of the dragons (Xbox arcade)
Battletoads/Double Dragon

I am rating these based on my current feelings, these are subject to change and much less set in stone then my castlevania ratings but here we go

1) Return of Dragon/Super Double Dragon
2) Double Dragon 3 (nes)
3) Double Dragon Neon
4) Double Dragon (nes)
5) Double Dragon advance (gba)
6) Double Dragon 2 (nes)
7) Double Dragon 4
8) Double Dragon (arcade)
9) Double Dragon/battletoads
10) Battletoads/Double Dragon (nes)
11) Double dragon 2 (game boy)
12) Double Dragon (master system)
13) Double Dragon 3 (arcade)
14) Double Dragon (atari 2600)

1) Super/Return: the snes iteration is hands down my favorite in the series and sits next to streets of rage 2 and tmnt: turtles in time as one of the all time best beat em ups ever created. Many don't like this game because it is much slower than other beat em ups of its day but the fighting is deep and has so many moves. It is incredibly satisfying to catch an enemies punch and kick them in the face a whole mess of times, all your attacks have a lot of weight and everything just feels right. The super famicom version is actually superior in a lot of ways but they are both cream of the crop as far as beat em ups go.

2) DD3 (nes): controversial opinion, thanks to the angry video game nerd it has become super hipster to bash this game but the reality is it is the deepest of the series on the NES and probably the best beat em up on that system. Tons of moves and a few different characters to use really make this game stand out from the pack, it is tough, but so are all the other games in the series and I don't care what the internet says, I will always love this game.

3) Double Dragon Neon: this is a modern game update done right, huge colorful graphics, a rocking soundtrack, tons of moves to unlock and upgrade, and the most silly wHimsical story that completely makes fun of itself in the series. Everyone in this game has so much personality and the last boss fight and ending credits are easily the best in the series, absolutely amazing game that needs to be played.

4) DD (nes): I love this game more than the game that inspired it, it has an expanded moveset compared to its arcade counterpart and the level design is loaded with traps and environmental hazards that add alot to the game. It also has the best soundtrack ever, well maybe not that far, but it is my favorite in the series.

5) Double Dragon advance: take the arcade game, give it better graphics, more moves, tighter controls, and some new levels and this is what you get. The definitive version of the arcade original that is so much more than the game that inspired it.

6) DD 2 (nes): OMG, How could this game rate so low, it is the nest beat em EVA!!!!!! is what most people would say here. I love this game, the fighting system is really cool and unique, one of the most interesting in the series, but some of the level design is just dumb, especially the last level. I know I praised the level design of 1 and it may seem hypocritical to bash it here but moving gears, disappearing platforms, and spiky things shooting up at you work much better for Mario than Billy Lee and it is all just a bit much and hampers my enjoyment of the game.

7) DD 4: solid update, it places low on the list but is absolutely worth a playthrough. The fun thing about this game is that you can unlock just about any character and play with them in the campaign mode which is neat.

8) DD (arcade): I place DD in the same category as I do the original Super Mario Bros. Amazing game for its time that completely innovated a genre, still fun today but the games in the series have gotten a lot better so it rates low in the hierarchy of the series, this is not a slap in the face of this game as much as it is a praise of its sequels, the exact same thing that I would say about placing Super Mario Bros very low on my list for when we inevitably rate that series.

9) BT/DD

10) DD 2(arcade) the last spot on my list of games I enjoy, I dont love this game and IMO, it is a considerable step down from the orginal but it is decent, I would put everything under this in the category of dumpster fire.

11) DD 2(GB) slow trashy game, I did beat it, will never play again

12) DD (master system) asthetically pleasing but the fight system is trash, no matter how many times I have tried it I hate it every time, I am sure I will give it another shot, I am sure I will hate it again, and I am sure I will roll my eyes at everyone who compares it to the NES game.

13) DD 3(arcade): the game that introduced microtransactions and terrible framerates to the gaming industry. Fuck this game, it is terrible and one of the worst in the series only rivaled by...

14) DD (atari 2600) in fairness this game was more of a victim of its hardware than bad design decisions, but it is still objectively terrible.
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PresidentLeever
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Re: Rate the series - Contra

by PresidentLeever Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:55 am

Something like this:
Double Dragon Advance (GBA)
Double Dragon (Arcade)
Double Dragon (MD)(w/ fix hack)
Double Dragon (NES)
Double Dragon (SMS)
Super Double Dragon (SNES)
Battletoads/Double Dragon
Double Dragon 2 (NES)
Double Dragon 2 (Arcade)

Haven't played or didn't care enough for the rest. It's not a series I care that much about beyond a couple of games. Generally has great music though.
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marurun
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Re: Rate the series - Double Dragon

by marurun Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:00 am

Oh, Double Dragon is a toughie. I've played a decent number of them and tend to enjoy them.
  1. Double Dragon 2 - PCE
  2. Double Dragon 2 - NES
  3. Double Dragon 3 - NES
  4. Double Dragon - NES
  5. Super Double Dragon - SNES
  6. Double Dragon Advance - GBA
  7. Double Dragon Neon - PC
  8. Battletoads & Double Dragon - GEN/NES
  9. Double Dragon 2 - arcade
  10. Double Dragon - arcade
  11. Double Dragon 3 - arcade
Double Dragon 2 is obviously my favorite title in the series, and I think the PCE rendition is the best. The PCE version strikes this middle ground between the NES incarnation and the arcade original, adopting the best of both versions. But the NES version is no slouch, and I think the best aspects of the PCE version are cribbed from the NES port. DD3 on NES is also awesome, with such a nice variety of moves, including some cool stuff you can do playing co-op. Even the venerable not-at-all arcade accurate NES DD original is a fantastic game. These developers knew what the NES could do and they knew it was futile trying to mimic the arcade, and all the games are better for it. SDD and DDA seem to inherit a little more of the arcade feel by way of DD2 PCE. They feel a little faster than the arcade but still have some of that heft, which is something the PCE port of DD2 did really well. If only DDA weren't so darned hard. I still cannot beat it. Now, when it comes to DDN and BT&DD, those only feel tangentially like DD games. BT&DD really feels like a Battletoads game, though I enjoy it more than the original Battletoads. And DDN is really its own thing, though it clearly owes a debt to its namesake franchise. Sadly, I have the fewest good feels about the arcade originals. DD2 and DD were decent, if slow and clunky, especially the original DD, which felt a little like playing underwater and had questionable hit detection. DD3 arcade was just an absolute mess. Don't play it. Just don't.
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Re: Rate the series - Double Dragon

by Gunstar Green Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:06 pm

I've never been a big fan of Double Dragon. I respect what it did for the beat 'em up genre but the genre quickly moved on and left it behind mechanically.

I'll just give my top 3:

Double Dragon Advance is probably the most evolved and polished version of the original arcade style.
Double Dragon 2 was easily my favorite for the NES though the first game was also fun with its RPG-lite stuff.
Double Dragon Neon is very different but a lot of fun with a great 80's atmosphere and music.
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Re: Rate the series - Double Dragon

by marurun Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:19 pm

Yeah, Double Dragon is a slower and more deliberate. The Final Fight style is definitely breezier and faster. And then there’s Kunio style!
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Re: Rate the series - Double Dragon

by pook99 Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:58 pm

@marurun: you reminded me that I need to play dd 2 on the PC-engine by rating it so high, I just downloaded it and will probably give it a run sometime tomorrow.
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Re: Rate the series - Double Dragon

by prfsnl_gmr Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:42 am

I’m trying to run this series; so, I have to get in on this! Here’s my ranking:

Double Dragon Advance (GBA) - This game rules. Great fighting and atmosphere. Just awesome.

Double Dragon Neon (Multi-Platform) - This game also rules. So, so funny.

Double Dragon (Arcade) - So much love for the original.

Double Dragon II (NES) - Best on the NES.

Super Double Dragon (SNES) - Great beat ‘em up mechanics.

Double Dragon (NES) - Solid early NES game. The two-player competitive version is so fun.

Double Dragon II (GB) - A Kunio-kun game!

Double Dragon III (NES) - I respect what Technos tries to do with this, but it never clicked with me. Too hard at the beginning and too easy at the end.

Double Dragon IV (Multi-Platform) - An OK throw back title.

Double Dragon 2 (Arcade) - A major step down from the original.

Double Dragon (GB) - This is where they start to get pretty bad...

Double Dragon V (Multi-Platform) - Absolutely horrid fighting game. If you play it, play as the skeleton.

Double Dragon 3 (Arcade) - A major mid-step.

Double Dragon (2600) - This game is terrible.

This is one of the most ported series of all time, and there is no way I’m going to play all of the ports. I would like to play through all of the “major” games in the series, however, and to that end, I still need to get through: Double Dragon (SMS), Double Dragon: The Revenge of Billy Lee (Game Gear), Double Dragon II (TG16), Revenge of the Double Dragon (SFC), Double Dragon (Neo Geo), Double Dragon (Android), and Double Dragon II: Wander of the Dragon (360). (I’m probably never going to be able to play the Zeebo Double Dragon game...). Are there any other ports or versions I should be sure to play?
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