Anything that is gaming related that doesn't fit well anywhere else
User avatar
marurun
Moderator
 
Posts: 9365
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:51 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by marurun Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:15 pm

Wait... if the complaint is that the New SMB series shackles itself to the past, how is Sonic Mania a body slam? Doesn’t it do largely the same thing, just really really well?
B/S/T thread
My Classic Games Collection
My Steam Profile
The PC Engine Software Bible Forum, with Shoutbox chat - the new Internet home for PC Engine fandom.
User avatar
prfsnl_gmr
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 10145
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by prfsnl_gmr Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:30 pm

marurun wrote:Wait... if the complaint is that the New SMB series shackles itself to the past, how is Sonic Mania a body slam? Doesn’t it do largely the same thing, just really really well?


Different expectations. Sonic games never took steps forward like Mario games, and frankly, most Sonic games are bad. As a result, a “not amazing” Mario game is a disappointment and a “very good” Sonic game blows everyone away. :?
User avatar
pierrot
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 3695
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:54 am
Location: Banned

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by pierrot Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:08 am

I feel like Xeo was saying that all of the NSMB games are stuck in the mold of the original SMB (I would have said SMB 3, but--). By contrast, Sonic Mania is kind of like a purely 2D version of Sonic Generations, but with some tweaks to gameplay, new stages/bosses, and additional characters. (I haven't played it, or seen much of it, but that's the sense I get.)

NSMB on the DS is actually one of the only sidescrolling Mario games I've ever finished (to 100% completion, no less--even with Luigi), and I actually didn't dislike it. I couldn't stand to play more than a couple worlds of NSMB Wii, though. So I'm going to proffer an alternative, and hear me out: Maybe 2D Mario games have always just been the same package, but with a different wrapper, and once that wrapper stopped changing, people subconsciously started to realize that there's really never anything "new" about Mario. Maybe Mario has always been so terribly unsexy because he's so incapable of taking any risks. No wonder Peach can't stand to be around him.
Image
User avatar
marurun
Moderator
 
Posts: 9365
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:51 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by marurun Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:25 pm

No, I don’t think I can agree with that take, at least on the classic Mario side. While SMB3 and SMW do both share some core mechanics, the varied suits/costumes, enemies, and level elements really totally transform gameplay. And I do actually agree that the New SMB series does seem more restrained and committed to a more homogeneous vision of 2D Mario.

I like Sonic in theory more than in practice, so I can’t really speak to Sonic Mania outside of what I read about it from others. In truth, my favorite Sonic game is Sonic Adventure, so I don’t know that I am ANY kind of authority in the Sonic space.
B/S/T thread
My Classic Games Collection
My Steam Profile
The PC Engine Software Bible Forum, with Shoutbox chat - the new Internet home for PC Engine fandom.
User avatar
Xeogred
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 14368
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: KC

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by Xeogred Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:49 pm

marurun wrote:No, I don’t think I can agree with that take, at least on the classic Mario side. While SMB3 and SMW do both share some core mechanics, the varied suits/costumes, enemies, and level elements really totally transform gameplay. And I do actually agree that the New SMB series does seem more restrained and committed to a more homogeneous vision of 2D Mario.

pierrot was right on his first paragraph and yeah, that was my point there too. SMB1, SMB3, and SMW, are insanely different aside from their core mechanics and staples in the series (Goomba's, etc). These games evolved a ton and each have their own personality. SMB3 brought verticality to the fold and SMW took that even further, then there's branching paths, Yoshi, secret worlds, crazy ideas with Switches, tons of cool stuff. Whenever I marathon the old Mario's, it's a blast because each entry is so different. Huge fan of SMB2 as well, though I know it doesn't officially fit in ways being DokiDoki.

New Super Mario Bros Wii, DS, 2 (DS?), Wii U, etc whatever, you've played one, you've played them all. And it's almost like you've already played them before you've even played them! They reel the series back so hard it hurts, then just kept chugging out more sequels to this for whatever reason. What was 2's gimmick? Collect a bunch more coins? This series gave us like two new hat powerups or something but that's it. Also could anyone seriously defend the Ghost Houses in any of these? They were some of the most annoying Mario levels I've ever played, lol. I liked when the Ghost Houses were fun and simpler in SMW... say goodbye to huge panning levels, interesting overworlds, Yoshi, etc.

Hope that clears it up... maybe pierrot is right with his second theory. I guess I can say that Yoshi's been downhill since Yoshi's Island to me. No sequel they've done to that has ever been even half as good to me and I'm not really sure why. Yoshi's Island was such a massive game too with an Xbox sized Bullet Bill full of levels, but Yoshi's Story, etc, were short as heck and weak sauce. Guess they just wanted to play it safe with Mario and Yoshi after the SNES. I still dig most 3D Mario's though.

Yeah the Sonic comparison was maybe off, but oh well. Sonic Mania may even be the best Sonic game of all time (I only like the old 2D ones). Lots of remixed levels, but there's some new ones in there, the beautiful pixel art and animations make it look like some lost Saturn artifact, and Mario music has never been in the same league as Sonic's. I thought Sonic Mania was better than Mario Odyssey for 2017, if that sums up how I feel on these. I'd take Sonic Mania over any of the New SMB series and tons more games in a blink.

Maybe my expectations of 2D Mario got overblown somewhere, sure... but NSMB started in 2006. I'd say it's time to leave this series in the dust. The Mario Maker 2 adventure mode already looks 10x more appealing to me since it's got some wacky new stuff and gimmicks to show off. Looks legit NEW and unique. Something the "New" series never ever had. :lol:
User avatar
pierrot
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 3695
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:54 am
Location: Banned

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by pierrot Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:21 pm

It was a bit of an abductive line of thought, taken to an extreme. I'll admit to feeling like there's a lot of homogeneity to Mario games of a particular "genre," except for when Nintendo actually did something really kind of different like with SMB 2 US, or Yoshi's Island. Sonic games from particular eras tend to be pretty samey, too, though, and I like a lot of those. So, while I may be a hypocrite, I'm not a hypocrite, if you get my drift.


marurun wrote:In truth, my favorite Sonic game is Sonic Adventure

Sonic Adventure is a good game. It might not be a great game, and it may be a lot of nostalgia that helps it for me, but it is at least quite a good game--.
It's also a game that I like quite a bit more than Mario 64 or Galaxy. Sunshine would probably be pretty even with it, for me. Although that one too is potentially helped by nostalgia.
Image
User avatar
Xeogred
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 14368
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: KC

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by Xeogred Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:35 pm

Project Scarlet sounds like the PS5 specs basically. Launches Holiday 2020 with Halo Infinite.

Elden Ring I'm hearing will be a bit in line with Dark Souls again, maybe a new trilogy

Cyberpunk 2077 releases April 2020!

New Tales game going AAA looks awesome...

PSO2 coming to the West finally!

Xbox had a lot to prove... but their conference wasn't anything special to me. Ah well. I'm probably just watching Bethesda and Square Enix besides this.
User avatar
bmoc
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by bmoc Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:50 pm

Xeogred wrote:Project Scarlet sounds like the PS5 specs basically. Launches Holiday 2020 with Halo Infinite.

Elden Ring I'm hearing will be a bit in line with Dark Souls again, maybe a new trilogy

Cyberpunk 2077 releases April 2020!

New Tales game going AAA looks awesome...

PSO2 coming to the West finally!

Xbox had a lot to prove... but their conference wasn't anything special to me. Ah well. I'm probably just watching Bethesda and Square Enix besides this.

I thought the standouts were pretty much what you listed plus Ori. That new Tales games looks right up my alley. Looks like it will be on PS4 too though.
User avatar
ElkinFencer10
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 7420
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Henderson, North Carolina

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by ElkinFencer10 Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:55 pm

Okay, so that Scarlett "reveal" was bullshit. They spent, what, 15 minutes? And said nothing that we didn't already know. We all knew it was codenamed Scarlett. We also know that they're going to give it a stupid ass final name like they did with Scorpio. We all knew it would be stupid powerful because that's Xbox's whole thing. We all suspected it would launch holiday 2020. They gave no real name. They gave no price. They gave no images of the console's design. They gave no images of the controller. They made no mention of special features other than a resolution that no consumer TV under $5000 supports and a frame rate that we all know only indie games and ports will actually achieve. What was the damn point?
Exhuminator wrote:Ecchi lords must unite for great justice.

Image
User avatar
Xeogred
Next-Gen
 
Posts: 14368
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: KC

Re: E3 2019 Discussion

by Xeogred Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:45 pm

ElkinFencer10 wrote:Okay, so that Scarlett "reveal" was bullshit. They spent, what, 15 minutes? And said nothing that we didn't already know. We all knew it was codenamed Scarlett. We also know that they're going to give it a stupid ass final name like they did with Scorpio. We all knew it would be stupid powerful because that's Xbox's whole thing. We all suspected it would launch holiday 2020. They gave no real name. They gave no price. They gave no images of the console's design. They gave no images of the controller. They made no mention of special features other than a resolution that no consumer TV under $5000 supports and a frame rate that we all know only indie games and ports will actually achieve. What was the damn point?

:lol:

I've been watching Easy Allies' stream coverage and yeah, they're critiquing this too.

Sony didn't really lose anything at all skipping this year.
Return to General Gaming

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest