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pierrot
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by pierrot Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:41 pm

MrPopo wrote:I was going to say that not liking LttP is an indication of you being a damaged human being.

I don't dislike LttP. It's okay, but once through it was really enough.

I hate Skyward Sword with a passion, though. (PHI! You're a disgrace to the Greek symbol representing magnetic flux, and phasor lag! I know the wiimote batteries are dying! There's a perpetually blinking, red battery symbol on the screen, and a flashing LED on the wiimote! Just stay in the sword!)
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by Key-Glyph Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:24 am

More progress was made in Zelda II last night, but it was definitely staggered progress. I started out strong by sweeping through a palace I'd half-finished, finding a town, and finding a hidden town (I'm being purposely vague for pierrot's sake in case he doesn't want spoilers). But then we spun our wheels for over an hour... all because of a poorly-translated message.

This is especially frustrating because my discovery of this message was completely due to my being over-thorough. So, in a sense, I was punished for being extra fastidious.

Venting is beneath the spoiler!
First, some context. After making my way south past the River Devil, I found the nearly deserted town of Kasuto. It had enemies flying around it that I could not see, so my immediate thought was, "Okay, the spell I'm going to get here is going to allow me to see invisible things." I find the one person remaining in the town -- the town mage, in fact, the type who traditionally teaches me new spells -- and he tells me only to go look elsewhere for another town. That seems benign enough; I assume I probably go to some other place, get a thing, bring it back to him, and earn a spell. Classic Zelda.

But because I have to explore everything in this town even though it's wrecking me, I proceed to enter all the other buildings. And on top of this, I've also picked up a habit of stabbing my way through empty rooms ever since the Lost Mirror Incident, because there are often random messages in such rooms. So, as I stab my way through an abandoned Kasuto building, the following text pops up on the screen with nary an NPC in sight: "MAGIC KEY READS... TREASURE OF KASUTO."

So to me, this message seemed to translate obviously into "you have picked up a key that has the words 'treasure of Kasuto' written on it." I think this because every other plot item we've acquired -- a trophy, medicine, even an entire child -- has not shown up anywhere in our inventory after picking it up. This has been true of items that we never even see in the overworld, such as the mirror and the water. We just read text that says, "You found a mirror!" and a particular NPC reacts to us differently from that moment onward.

So, like I said, I spent over an hour spinning my wheels about this supposed "magic key" I'd found. I tried talking to the old man after acquiring it; I tried pressing B on tons of stuff in towns in case it unlocked something; I tried walking through a locked castle door. I just assumed that entire time that this key was understood to be in my inventory, just like the mirror and water, and that I needed only find the right NPC or suspicious piece of furniture to acquire my next real item.

Thank goodness I eventually gave up on that mystery and decided to focus on something else (magic containers) that led to some real progression, because as I later found out, I never had any magic key in my inventory at all. That message was a complete red herring with no effect on my game. Through unrelated means I eventually found an actual magic key in Kasuto, which, obviously, is its treasure. But... what was that secret message I found supposed to mean, then? How else was I to interpret "MAGIC KEY READS... TREASURE OF KASUTO" if not to assume I'd picked up a key and read its inscription? Was this an issue of poor translation? And if so, what meaning was it actually supposed to convey? Or was I not supposed to find that message at all? Maybe some of these phantom messages are just unfinished or beta plot threads that still exist in the code?

Anyways, no spoilers or anything in responses pleas, but dang. I'm still having a great time with the game, but I really wish I hadn't gone so out of my way only to find a misleading or possibly incomplete message that baked my brainmeats for an hour and a half. Yikes!
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by PartridgeSenpai Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:38 am

pierrot wrote:I hate Skyward Sword with a passion, though. (PHI! You're a disgrace to the Greek symbol representing magnetic flux, and phasor lag! I know the wiimote batteries are dying! There's a perpetually blinking, red battery symbol on the screen, and a flashing LED on the wiimote! Just stay in the sword!)


Skyward Sword is a baaad game. The narrative has some pretty good moments, but my god, it is maybe the most incredible example of Nintendo's tendency to put their all behind a terrible idea and wrap a whole game around it. Beyond the not-good-enough motion controls, the whole game's pacing is just soooo slow and plodding and padded to hell that I'm glad it killed that OoT-style of Zelda if that was the path Nintendo was beginning to take 3D-Zelda games.
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by MrPopo Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:49 pm

PartridgeSenpai wrote:
pierrot wrote:I hate Skyward Sword with a passion, though. (PHI! You're a disgrace to the Greek symbol representing magnetic flux, and phasor lag! I know the wiimote batteries are dying! There's a perpetually blinking, red battery symbol on the screen, and a flashing LED on the wiimote! Just stay in the sword!)


Skyward Sword is a baaad game. The narrative has some pretty good moments, but my god, it is maybe the most incredible example of Nintendo's tendency to put their all behind a terrible idea and wrap a whole game around it. Beyond the not-good-enough motion controls, the whole game's pacing is just soooo slow and plodding and padded to hell that I'm glad it killed that OoT-style of Zelda if that was the path Nintendo was beginning to take 3D-Zelda games.

I won't ask you to like the game, but calling it a "baaad game" is fightin' words.
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by pierrot Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:41 pm

Key-Glyph wrote:(I'm being purposely vague for pierrot's sake in case he doesn't want spoilers).

:lol: Thanks, Key. I have been sort of skimming your posts on Zelda II, and just peeking in on the stream, to try to get a sense of what your progress has been like, without giving things away. I sort of "spoiled" a couple things for myself already by looking up all the different types of items in the game, when I got the medicine, but thought the game was bugged, because I was sure it had to be an item that increased my max HP. I also realized that I had missed the Shield spell when I was scanning through some videos of the Japanese version to try to see what the kid who tells you to go west from the first town actually says. (I guess this was sort of like you missing the Life spell.) If I had known about the Shield spell to begin with, I potentially wouldn't have been quite so pissed off with the game. It still would have made me very, very angry, don't get me wrong, but it might not have felt quite so visceral.

I've sort of started to accept the game, a little bit. I blew right through the third palace, after getting stuck for a while at the massive wall under the cemetery. The down-stab is a maneuver that really should not come into play so far into the game, either. Sorry to hear you got faked out by the game. That was basically what happened to me every time I tried to play Zelda II, where I would start it up, and just couldn't figure out how to get to the first palace.



PartridgeSenpai wrote:Skyward Sword is a baaad game. The narrative has some pretty good moments, but my god, it is maybe the most incredible example of Nintendo's tendency to put their all behind a terrible idea and wrap a whole game around it. Beyond the not-good-enough motion controls, the whole game's pacing is just soooo slow and plodding and padded to hell that I'm glad it killed that OoT-style of Zelda if that was the path Nintendo was beginning to take 3D-Zelda games.

I barely even remember anything about the story in that game. Maybe it's partly blocked by the trauma of being constantly harassed by Phi, I don't know. Yeah, one of the biggest things for me was just that the motion controls never worked. Like, they ended up being worse than the motion controls in Twilight Princess on the Wii, because I would just get completely wrong directions for sword swings (if I actually tried to play it straight), and it seemed that it needed to be recalibrated every couple minutes. Also, those stupid Loftwings. So it was probably all the little things that really stuck in my craw, but yeah, if it hadn't felt so padded, and drawn out, maybe I wouldn't have minded as much.
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by pierrot Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:10 pm

Is Zelda II glitching the fuck out on me? This could really be the last straw. I went and poked around in the palace after the maze. Stumbled upon the water boots, and then probably died on my last life or something. Farmed a level for grins. Then I decided to go into the palace in the lake, not knowing the order of things. Find the false wall that the townsperson told me about, and think I'm all set with keys. Get to the boss room, but remember that I didn't go down one of the branches past the false wall. Open up the first of the locked doors. Fight 'dark nuts,' to get to the locked door before the treasure room, and just bump into it--. I was sure there was nowhere else that there could be a key unless it was buried in a wall, or something. So, somewhat reluctantly, I check a map. All the maps I can find for this palace say that there are five keys, and five locked doors (not included the ones after the boss). In my game, there are five keys, and six locked doors. What the hell is going on here?

There's a locked door on tile H, for me: https://cdn.wikimg.net/en/strategywiki/images/0/02/Adventure_of_Link_Palace5_map.png. Everything I can find says that, no, there is not.
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by Key-Glyph Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:57 am

pierrot wrote: All the maps I can find for this palace say that there are five keys, and five locked doors (not included the ones after the boss). In my game, there are five keys, and six locked doors. What the hell is going on here?

There's a locked door on tile H, for me: https://cdn.wikimg.net/en/strategywiki/images/0/02/Adventure_of_Link_Palace5_map.png. Everything I can find says that, no, there is not.

Hey pierrot, I'm watching through my run in this palace and I'm going to see if I can help!

My immediate thought is, if you know you didn't fully explore one of the paths beyond the false wall, then you might not have picked up the key in K. If you've already done this, I apologize for re-explaining it, but: after you go through the false wall and follow that floor all the way to the right (Q), then go up into (R), the tail end of that room spills over leftwards into tile K. You have to dip your toes into the end of that room by entering K from the right to pick up that key.

If you're in room K (entering from the darknut side) and you press yourself all the way against the wall on the right, you'll be able see whether or not the key is over there.

I spent a lot of time in this dungeon because so many rooms look alike. Even with mapping I would get lost, doubt what I'd written down, and put little notes in the wrong places.

I picked up 5 keys and went through 5 locked doors in the floating dungeon (not including the key the boss drops). I did not have a locked door in H, but there's one in Z, right before the boss (as you noted), and that room looks exactly like H.

Hope this helps! Fingers crossed it's just that key in K. And I apologize if you wanted a vaguer answer, but you're so frustrated that I felt it better to tell you outright, just in case this is the solution.
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by PartridgeSenpai Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:29 am

pierrot wrote:
PartridgeSenpai wrote:Skyward Sword is a baaad game. The narrative has some pretty good moments, but my god, it is maybe the most incredible example of Nintendo's tendency to put their all behind a terrible idea and wrap a whole game around it. Beyond the not-good-enough motion controls, the whole game's pacing is just soooo slow and plodding and padded to hell that I'm glad it killed that OoT-style of Zelda if that was the path Nintendo was beginning to take 3D-Zelda games.

I barely even remember anything about the story in that game. Maybe it's partly blocked by the trauma of being constantly harassed by Phi, I don't know. Yeah, one of the biggest things for me was just that the motion controls never worked. Like, they ended up being worse than the motion controls in Twilight Princess on the Wii, because I would just get completely wrong directions for sword swings (if I actually tried to play it straight), and it seemed that it needed to be recalibrated every couple minutes. Also, those stupid Loftwings. So it was probably all the little things that really stuck in my craw, but yeah, if it hadn't felt so padded, and drawn out, maybe I wouldn't have minded as much.


If Skyward Sword were like, 10 or 15 hours shorter than it's SUPER padded 30+ hour runtime (at least that's what it took me when I beat it), and the motion controls worked, I'd be able to more easily accept that it's a case of a game just not being made for me. But that game has SO much stuff that feels like it's there just to waste your time, and the bad motion controls actively emphasize and constantly remind you of exactly what you're doing and how much of a chore it feels like. There is a shell of an idea of an alright video game in Skyward Sword, but the actual product there is something that, on its best day, is below average at the very best.
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by BoneSnapDeez Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:45 am

Epic Zelda talk my dudes.

I haven't forgotten my commitment.

I'm going on vacation for a week, but once I return I will play Kid Icarus!
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Re: Racketboy forums’ Summer Games Challenge 2019

by Ack Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:21 am

Guess what turned a decade old last year and now counts as "retrogaming"...

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You know you want me to go big game hunting...for Man.
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