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marurun
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by marurun Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:22 pm

What's the primary legal system the Phoenix Wright games attempt to model? Is there a judge and jury as in the American system or is there merely a judge as in the Japanese system?
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alienjesus
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by alienjesus Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:23 pm

marurun wrote:What's the primary legal system the Phoenix Wright games attempt to model? Is there a judge and jury as in the American system or is there merely a judge as in the Japanese system?


Just a judge. It's actually a plot point in one of the later entries in the series.
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by prfsnl_gmr Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:53 pm

marurun wrote:What's the primary legal system the Phoenix Wright games attempt to model? Is there a judge and jury as in the American system or is there merely a judge as in the Japanese system?


To say the justice system in the Phoenix Wright games is grievously flawed from a procedural due process perspective would be a drastic understatement. With regard to the rights of the accused, it is like something from the Spanish Inquisition. :lol:

That said, I still love those games.
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nullPointer
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by nullPointer Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:02 pm

alienjesus wrote:
marurun wrote:What's the primary legal system the Phoenix Wright games attempt to model? Is there a judge and jury as in the American system or is there merely a judge as in the Japanese system?

Just a judge. It's actually a plot point in one of the later entries in the series.

Heh heh, yeah this actually leads to some interesting disconnects. Because while the the game ostensibly takes place in Los Angeles (according to character dialog), it's absolutely filled to the brim with cultural and geographic references that undeniably place it in Japan, the legal system being one primary aspect. It was an intentional aspect of the localization, but that doesn't make it any less funny. :mrgreen:

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Here's an interesting blog post from Capcom that addresses this aspect of the localization.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/zeroobjecti ... never-knew

prfsnl_gmr wrote:To say the justice system in the Phoenix Wright games is grievously flawed from a procedural due process perspective would be a drastic understatement. With regard to the rights of the accused, it is like something from the Spanish Inquisition. :lol:

That said, I still love those games.

Also true! These games are definitely not legal system simulators by any stretch of the imagination. Prepare to go in with a firm suspension of disbelief and you'll have a good time.

Edit:
@prfsnl_gmr: I don't know whether the later games add voice overs (I kind of hope not!), but as I'm playing through these games Edgeworth has a very distinctive voice in my mind. Due to your profile pic, I read all your posts in that same internal voice. I thought you should know. Having said that Edgeworth is also probably my favorite character in the series, even more so than Phoenix. So yeah ... I guess I'm saying your pic rules. :mrgreen:
Last edited by nullPointer on Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by Segata Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:19 pm

Zero Gunner 2.

Wow! What a great game! I've wanted this game forever but the Dreamcast prices are out of control. Got it on Switch and might be the first time it was released in the US on home systems? Helicopters vs Giant Robots. What can be better? I like how you can adjust your craft 360 degrees. Makes a much more dynamic game. The graphics have cleaned up VERY WELL! Reminds me why I'm still impressed with Dreamcast visuals. very sharp very clean and colorful. The music has that wonderful midi you got from games like this in 90s arcade shooters. Love it! Seriously any Switch owner should get this game!
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Dreamcast is love,Dreamcast is life!
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by nullPointer Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:07 pm

It turns out I still had the itch for some licensed platformer goodness this month! So was it good? Well ... it's complicated.

The List So Far:
1. To the Moon [PC/Steam]
2. Super Mario All-Stars: Super Mario Bros. 3 [SNES]
3. The Goonies [Famicom] [Together Retro - 01/2018]
4. Disney's Kim Possible: Revenge of Monkey Fist [GBA] [Together Retro - 01/2018]
5. The Addams Family [SNES] [Together Retro - 01/2018]
6. The Adventures of Batman & Robin [SNES] [Together Retro - 01/2018]
7. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trilogy: Justice for All [3DS]

8. Mickey Mousecapade [NES] [Together Retro - 01/2018]
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I have a bit of nefarious history with Mickey Mousecapade that I've never admitted to anyone … until now. The year was 1988, Christmas time. At this point the NES had been a resident of our household for almost exactly one year (I'd received it as a Christmas gift the year prior). The gifts were wrapped and under the tree in young null's household, and by this time I knew which one was an NES game. There was no mistaking the size and shape of that distinctive box. The suspense of not knowing what game lay beneath that thin layer of paper was absolutely killing me. So one evening when I knew I'd have the house to myself for a couple of hours, I broke out the X-Acto knife. Carefully and with the precision of a surgeon I cut the scotch tape away from the wrapping paper which I then gingerly folded back to discover … Mickey Mousecapade! It wasn't without some degree of guilt that I popped it into the NES and played it for a while. Then just as carefully as before I folded it back into the original wrapping paper, placed new pieces of tape over the ones that I had cut, and replaced it under the tree. For shame! What a naughty kid I was. I tell you what though, it was the last time I ever pulled that stunt. I learned a valuable lesson that year. It turns out I much preferred the actual feeling of delight and surprise over the feigned version to which I resorted that Christmas morning. And thus ends this cautionary tale.

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So what we have here is the genesis of Capcom's amazing partnership with Disney during the NES years. This wasn't a 'Disney Afternoon' title as such, because Mickey Mouse wasn't actually part of the classic Disney Afternoon lineup on TV. Nonetheless this was the first Capcom produced Disney title on NES. And it wasn't even developed by Capcom, but rather by Hudson Soft. And once you know this fact all the rest falls into place, because this game also feels nothing like the other (Capcom developed) games in the Disney Afternoon lineup. Does this mean that this is a bad game? The answer to that is, well, it depends actually … how much do you like other Hudson Soft games on NES? Because all the hallmarks are here, both good and bad. You have fairly competent controls with floaty jump mechanics … much like Adventure Island. You have elements of inscrutable gameplay relying on the discovery of invisible hidden objects with random placement … much like Milon's Secret Castle. The graphics are bold, colorful, and good (though not great), but there's also crazy amounts of sprite flicker at times … much like every Hudson Soft game on the NES. So yeah once the Hudson Soft realization kicks in you pretty much know what to expect from Mickey Mousecapade, not that it's necessarily a bad thing.

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Are there elements that make this game unique then? Well, there sure are; I'm glad I asked. In modern parlance I guess we'd call this a game consisting solely of 'escort missions'. But that's not quite accurate, since there's no AI partner involved. No, you control both Mickey and Minnie simultaneously though separately, and this mechanic gets implemented in some interesting ways. Minnie walks when you walk, jumps when you jump, climbs when you climb, but always at a pace or two behind. So there's always sort of this '1..2' pacing to your movements. It's also crucially important to know that only Mickey can take physical damage. This sort of sets up a system capable of abuse (which I suspect was intentional), because since Minnie is always a pace or two behind you can set up situations in which her pathing becomes drastically different than Mickey's. For instance if a boss is on an upper platform you can start climbing the ladder leading there, and then drop off right at the very top in such a way that Minnie is the only character left up there. Then you can just lay into the boss with no concern of damage (did I mention that she also shoots when you shoot?). All in all this is an interesting mechanic, but it also frequently turns frustrating. When jumping over pits, you need to gauge distance in such a way that insures that both Mickey and Minnie land on the other side (since she's always a step or two behind). Because despite the fact that Minnie can't take physical damage, she can definitely fall down into pits and if she does, that means game over for Mickey as well. The game has so many points designed to exploit this fact. Prepare to yell more expletives at Minnie Mouse than the time Donald Duck had a brief stint in N.W.A. Having said all of that, the game isn't terribly difficult. It really alternates between these moments of extreme trolling (often at about mid level), and boss fights that are incredibly easy for the most part largely due to the exploit I mentioned above. It's also an incredibly short game even by NES standards. Once you have a feel for it, I'd say that you can blow through this one, beginning to end, in about 20 minutes and even that might be a generous allotment.

So is it worth it? Well despite being a bottom tier Capcom-Disney game (by my estimation), it's not a bad game per se. It's a mediocre game with some interesting mechanics rendered mostly forgettable primarily due to its short length. If you love Mickey Mouse or you're a rabid completionist where it comes to the Capcom-Disney partnership on NES, you'll probably find something to enjoy here. Short of that I'd advise you to play the other Capcom-Disney games which are demonstrably better than this one.
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by BoneSnapDeez Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:00 pm

Good post nully. That sure does look Hudsony.

I like the long ass posts in this thread. (Though whenever I make one myself I later notice 878478345 spelling/grammar mistakes).
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by BoneSnapDeez Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:59 pm

1. Antarctic Adventure (Famicom)
2. Nuts & Milk (Famicom)
3. Commando (Atari 2600)
4. Binary Land (Famicom)
5. Devil World (Famicom)
6. Disney's Aladdin (SNES)
7. Popeye (NES)
8. Super Mario Land (Game Boy)
9. Ys: The Vanished Omens (Sega Master System)
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To call myself an Ys fan would be a bit of an understatement. I consider this series to be the peak of the ARPG genre (yes, even if we toss the Zelda franchise into the mix) -- perhaps even the peak of video gaming, period. While the most recent installments have wavered a bit in quality (even Falcom lacks immunity to the "Modern Gaming" virus) the first cluster of Ys titles are undeniable masterpieces (more like masterpyses, amiriteladies?).

The premier Ys entry has been released and rereleased on so many platforms that it's easy to forget where it all began. The game was but a humble addition to the NEC PC-88 library, developed by Falcom (Panorama Toh, Dragon Slayer). It was then subsequently ported to a number of computer systems, as well as the two Japanese 8-bit console juggernauts (Famicom and Mark III). While the Famicom port never left Japan, the Mark III version was localized and released on the Sega Master System in North America, Europe, and Brazil. While head-to-head NES vs. SMS battles are always "fun" there's really no argument to be had here: the Mark III / SMS port of Ys is quite competent, while the Famicom received an absolute trainwreck.

There's some odd localization at play here. Adol, the hero of most Ys tales, is known as Aron in this version (or "ARON" if we are to follow the all-caps retro gaming nomenclature). Characters speak in Elizabethan English, though Dragon Warrior did it better. Because of some trolling Sega game programmer, all dungeons have a flipped "mirror image" layout when compared to the original PC-88 game. Most puzzling of all is the name change. While the Sega box art bears the same Ys logo that graced the Japanese game, the instruction booklet, as well as the text printed on the cartridge and game box spine, use the spelling Y's with an apostrophe. This apparently led a generation of American JRPG nerds to pronounce the game title as "wise."
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The game weaves a straightforward narrative. This hero guy, Adol (Aron), is tasked with some simple local quests: investigate this one creepy guy that's been hanging around, steal back the stuff that the thieves took, and so on. In typical Japanese RPG fashion, this soon spins off into a "save the world from the ultimate evil" tale, with a duo of enigmatic goddesses taking center stage. While the game text is rather stilted and contrived, it still manages to hint at a larger and much more interesting "Ys mythology" that would be expanded upon in the direct sequel and other series entries.

Superficially, Ys: The Vanished Omens may resemble The Legend of Zelda and similar consoles titles, but its gameplay style is in actuality quite different. This is a computer ARPG (initially) and certainly plays like one. Adol's quest is brief and the game world is compact, consisting of a tiny overworld, two towns, and three dungeons. Grinding is mandatory, and most every item is essential to the game's completion. Health refills when Adol remains motionless. Then there's the combat: the most glorious thing in the video game realm... The bump system! There's no attack button in Ys: The Vanished Omens. Adol simply rams into his enemies and damage is exchanged. There is strategy involved. When meeting with an enemy of similar aptitude, Adol must strike a hit from off-center to effectively deal damage. As he levels up, Adol can be less choosy when dealing with weaker enemies and can opt to simply steamroll them. Likewise, foes significantly stronger than Adol can insta-kill him regardless of positioning. While Ys didn't invent this type of combat, it refined and popularized it. And it's absolutely brilliant, even preferable to the typical button-press swordplay found in most console ARPGs. Battles are frantic and streamlined, and there's nothing more satisfying than the "clunk" of a fallen villain. The only downside is the absolute lack of variety found in enemy attack patterns. A diverse array of creatures roam the lands, but all behave in the same fashion -- they charge at Adol. While some are faster than others, none fire projectiles or behave in a truly intelligent manner. A later localization of the game calls the bad guys "goons" which seems quite appropriate.

Graphically, Ys doesn't exactly take advantage of the Sega Master System hardware. The environments look okay, though a bit dull and muddied. Enemy sprites are low-res and kinda crummy. There is some cool artwork displayed when talking to key NPCs. They're expertly drawn and surprisingly "Western" - like something out of an old Ultima instruction manual. The musical compositions are incredible, though it's impossible to not draw comparisons to the CD version of the game where the sound design becomes absolutely divine. Choice cuts include the riveting overworld theme ("First Step Towards War") and the poignant palace dirge ("Palace"); the latter has a criminally short run time and only appears in one brief area of the game. Then there's the title screen music - a "nerd chills" anthem that would become the de facto series theme, appearing in some form or another in various sequels.
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The game's cleverly designed and progression is a bit atypical. The first dungeon (the palace), for instance, cannot be completed in one fell swoop. After a winding empty maze tract the first enemy appears: a boss. Halfway into the depths appears a damsel in distress, who must be rescued and led back to town. Then another trip into the labyrinth is required to finish things off and acquire a legendary Book of Ys. The game's climax occurs in Darm Tower: a massive multi-floor behemoth holding plenty of secrets, riddles, treasures, and, uh, a couple of backtracking segments. Darm Tower itself is something of a point of contention for Ys fans, as the entire second half of the game is spent traversing its various corridors. It's an entertaining romp, but much larger and longer than it needs to be, to say the least.

Like most old crusty ARPGs, there are flaws here that remain hard to overlook. As mentioned, the game is grindy. This is typical, and really not so bad in itself. It's the bizarre pacing of the leveling system that's the issue. Without any conscious grinding the game's first boss can theoretically be reached within about fifteen minutes of casual play. But Adol must be at level five to damage said boss. This requires a cumulative XP total of 1600. Nearby enemies dole out a whopping four XP when defeated. Do the math. As per computer ARPG tradition, there's a level cap here as well: level ten. This needs to be reached halfway through the game, or the second dungeon's boss is impervious to Adol's attacks. As such, no leveling up is required during the second half of the game (Darm Tower), and since Darm Tower contains no shops Adol no longer needs cash - thus, engaging in combat is a worthless endeavor. And considering the unavoidable damage Adol's bound to receive during combat, it's best to just cruise past all Darm Tower enemies.

Bosses are also an issue. They're huge, impressive to gaze upon, and boast some fascinating attack patterns, but the bump hit detection is pretty wonky when dealing with these giant sprites. Beating the early bosses just boils down to having the correct experience level, while some of the later fights (after the experience cap) require a modicum of luck. Speaking of luck, good luck attempting this one without a walkthrough or maps. Some "puzzles" require completely capricious solutions, and the "hints" given by the townsfolk are questionable at best.

When dissecting Ys, certain deficiencies become readily apparent. Yet I can't help but adore the game. There's a je ne sais quoi to it; it feels arcane and ancient, like it wasn't molded by human hands and somehow predates video games altogether. Taken as a whole, it's enormously atmospheric and immersive. Moreover, it's the seed that would eventually blossom into something almost indescribably sublime: the PC Engine release of Ys Book I & II.
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by ElkinFencer10 Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:28 pm

Holy shit, there was an Ys game I'd played before Bone? Or was the SMS version a replay for you?
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BoneSnapDeez
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Re: Games Beaten 2018

by BoneSnapDeez Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:45 pm

Nah I've played it like 50 times.
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