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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by Xeogred Fri May 12, 2017 5:32 pm

I think that's what makes Contra magical. I just said it recently in another thread, but the one hit death type of games usually aren't my jam (granted there's a lot of nostalgic exceptions, maybe some mood shifts, and some legit fun ones out there). But everything about Contra is perfectly deliberate. It was nothing but fun and fair to me. It's totally doable.

I want to try and beat Super C, Contra 3, and Hard Corps at least. One thing I don't like about the series though are the weird perspective changed stages, the overhead stuff in Super C and 3 looks kind of blah. I didn't really mind the base levels in Contra though, it was just tricky getting a feel for the hit detection. But they got easy after awhile.

The difficulty almost felt kind of top heavy too. The 5th boss was a total joke and I actually beat the last level and final boss on my first run getting there, it was pretty easy. The 4th boss was one of the scarier ones.
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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by Sarge Fri May 12, 2017 5:47 pm

Yeah, the Stage 4 boss in the original is brutal if you don't get there with the Spreader. You have to play very defensively, and be pinpoint in your accuracy shooting down the bubbles.

The Stage 5 boss indeed is much easier. Basically get underneath and start firing! It's even easier if you have any sort of weapon (except Fireball, that thing sucks).

As for the overhead stuff in Super C, I love those stages. They're basically like Commando or Mercs, and it's very well done. I'm not a fan of the overhead stages in Contra III, though.

Speaking of overhead Contra games, I really enjoyed Neo Contra on PS2. I haven't played it in quite some time, but it's not nearly as brutal as something like Shattered Soldier.
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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by ElkinFencer10 Fri May 12, 2017 6:42 pm

Games Beaten in 2017 So Far - 43

January (10 Games Beaten)
1. Persona 4 Arena - Playstation 3 - January 1
2. Chrono Trigger - SNES - January 7
3. Ys: The Vanished Omens - Master System - January 8
4. MUSHA - Genesis - January 10
5. Dragon Quest Heroes: The World Tree's Woe and the Blight Below - PlayStation 4 - January 11
6. Ys I - TurboGrafx-CD - January 13
7. Ys II - TurboGrafx-CD - January 14
8. Dragon Quest Builders - PlayStation 4 - January 23
9. Resident Evil 7: Biohazard - PlayStation 4 - January 26
10. School Girl/Zombie Hunter - PlayStation 4 - January 29

February (12 Games Beaten)
11. Fire Emblem Heroes - Android - February 3
12. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD - Wii U - February 5
13. Dante's Inferno - PlayStation 3 - February 7
14. Hotel Dusk: Room 215 - DS - February 11
15. Persona 4: Dancing All Night - Vita - February 12
16. Sniper Elite 4 - PlayStation 4 - February 17
17. Pony Quest - NES - February 19
18. Halo Wars 2 - Xbox One - February 22
19. Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions - PlayStation Portable - February 24
20. Hotline Miami - PlayStation 4 - February 26
21. Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light - Famicom - February 27
22. Bad Dudes - NES - February 28

March (6 Games Beaten)
23. Root Letter - PlayStation 4 - March 2
24. Vroom in the Night Sky - Switch - March 10
25. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - Switch - March 17
26. Super Bomberman R - Switch - March 18
27. Super Mario Run - Android - March 24
28. I Am Setsuna - Switch - March 24

April (9 Games Beaten)
29. Mass Effect: Andromeda - PlayStation 4 - April 1
30. Sniper Elite: Nazi Zombie Army - PlayStation 4 - April 2
31. Sniper Elite: Nazi Zombie Army 2 - PlayStation 4 - April 2
32. New Frontier Days: Founding Pioneers - Switch - April 3
33. Sniper Elite: Nazi Zombie Army 3 - PlayStation 4 - April 4
34. Persona 5 - PlayStation 4 - April 17
35. Alienation - PlayStation 4 - April 18
36. Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc - PlayStation 4 - April 23
37. Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair - PlayStation 4 - April 29

May (6 Games Beaten)
38. Puyo Puyo Tetris - Switch - May 4
39. Fire Emblem Gaiden - Famicom - May 6
40. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe - Switch - May 6
41. Outlast II - PlayStation 4 - May 7
42. Dishonored - PlayStation 4 - May 10
43. Snipperclips: Cut it Out, Together! - Switch - May 12

43. Snipperclips: Cut it Out, Together! - Switch - May 12


Snipperclips: Cut it Out, Together! is one of the quirky games that shows off the Switch's uniqueness and suitability for local cooperative play. I played through about 1/3 of this game with my buddy Joker and about 2/3 of it with Hope, one of my harder working and better behaved students, during various lunch periods over the past two months. While it's possible to play the game solo, it's really not worth playing solo. To get any real enjoyment out of Snipperclips, it's basically mandatory that you play with a friend.


In Snipperclips, you and up to three of your friends play as little pieces of paper with legs and a face. You have you figure out how to solve various puzzles by working together and cutting each other and your environment into a variety of shapes. It starts of simple with obviously solved puzzles, but the game gets extremely challenging in a few points. The types of puzzles vary a bit in objective. Sometimes you have to cut yourselves to make a certain shape together, sometimes you have to cut a provided background into a certain shape, sometimes you have get specific fish into a bowl, sometimes you have to have to fill a container with slime, etc. It's limited enough that you can get a feel for certain types of puzzles, but it has enough variety to keep things from getting stale.


There are three different game modes in Snipperclips, your standard World mode for one or two players as well as Party and Blitz modes for two to four players. The World mode is the "main" game with three worlds containing roughly fifteen levels each. Party mode has additional puzzles designed for extra players. Blitz mode contains competitive games like basketball and snipping deathmatches. I've only messed around briefly with Blitz and Party modes; I usually only have one other person playing with me, and those who know me can tell you that I'm not a very competitive person, always choosing cooperative play over competitive play when it's an option. I do very much like that there's a competitive option for those who want some competition instead of or in addition to cooperation.


You'll be playing the game with just the Joycon, so make sure that you have enough Joycons to accommodate however many players you have and that you're comfortable with controllers that small. You technically can play with a more traditional controller configuration like the Joycon grip (I've hard that the Pro controller isn't supported although I've not tried it), but you only use one control stick, the two shoulder buttons, and the four face buttons, so a single Joycon gives you all that you need.


Snipperclips: Cut it Out, Together! is a simple game in concept, but the various puzzles you'll solve can get extraordinarily tricky, and there really is a true feeling of accomplishment when you finally figure how to and actually manage to solve some of them. It forces real critical thinking and cooperation to finish, and a few of the puzzles are downright brutal to solve. For $20, it's not an inexpensive digital-only title, but if you've got a friend or two who will play with you, it's well worth the investment. If you've got a Switch and some friends, this is not a game to miss. It's silly, it's lighthearted, it's a mental challenge, and it's great fun with a friend. Definitely recommended.
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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by pierrot Fri May 12, 2017 7:01 pm

1. Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys (PCE-CD)
2. Mega Bomberman (GEN)
3. Lost in Shadow (Wii)
4. Kirby's Dream Land (via Wii Dream Collection) (GB)
5. Kirby's Dream Land 2 (via Wii Dream Collection) (GB)
6. Kirby's Dream Land 3 (via Wii Dream Collection) (SNES)
7. Saturn Bomberman (SAT)
8. Rent a Hero (GEN)
9. Tricolore Crise (DC)
10. Super Mario: Yoshi Island (SFC)
11. Clockwork Knight: Pepperouchou no Daibouken (Joukan) (SAT)
12. Mickey to Donald: Magical Adventure 3 (SFC)
13. Kishin Douji Zenki: Battle Raiden (SFC)
14. Super Donkey Kong (SFC)
15. Super Donkey Kong 2: Dixie & Diddy (SFC)
16. Anearth Fantasy Stories: First Volume (SAT)
17. Panzer Dragoon (SAT)
18. Panzer Dragoon II Zwei (SAT)
19. Panzer Dragoon Orta (XBOX)
20. Cross Tantei Monogatari
21. Dragon Quest V (PS2)
22. Ryu ga Gotoku (PS2)
23. Dragon Slayer: Eiyuu Densetsu II (GEN)

I always enjoy a good Dragon Quest game, and in some people's opinions Dragon Quest V is the best in the series. Curiously--or maybe not so curiously for anyone who has played the original at all--the original Super Famicom release fell short of expected sales for the mainline series, and didn't break the 3 million unit mark. It was still the 6th best selling SFC game in Japan, though. However, when the PS2 remake was released, it surpassed the sales of all previous DQ remakes, and it's possible that DQ V received more praise, and recognition as time passed, compared to its initial release.

There are quite a few changes in the PS2 remake. Obviously the most immediately apparent is the graphical overhaul into a completely 3D engine. While in some regards it has a bit of an appearance of an upscaled PS1 game, generally the graphics are pleasing, fit with the series, and do a good job of recreating the original world of Dragon Quest V while also looking astronomically better in comparison. Other notable additions and changes include a museum of local specialty items, the boardgame houses from the DQ III remake, a lottery minigame, 28 more recruitable monster types, a beautifully arranged soundtrack, and some additional points of exposition with varying degrees of appropriateness. I'm not positive of this, but I believe the additional dialogue from party chat is also new to the remake. I found it pretty enjoyable to see what Bianca, and the kids had to say about pretty much anything and everything, even though that added a lot of time to my playthrough.

The main hook in the gameplay, this time around, is the recruiting of monsters. Human party members float in and out of the party throughout the course of the game, but after the first set of major events in the story, the ability to recruit and train monsters you defeat in battle is opened up. You start out recruiting Slimes, Brownies and Slime Knights, but later get Anklehorns, Golems, and if you're lucky, Killer Machines and Hagure Metals. In the original version, there are only three slots for party members, though, which means that for the latter half of the game, there's pretty much no reason to use anything other than the human party members. However, the PS2 remake adds an extra party slot. I pretty much just put my Killer Panther in the slot, and called it good, but that change does give a lot more flexibility. The enemies seem to be a bit more difficult in the remake, to account for it, though.

I found this to be a pretty easy game, as far as Dragon Quests go, but I also quite enjoyed it. I would be hard pressed to put it over Dragon Quest VIII, but it's at least a very close second. The PS2 version is definitely the way to go: Unfortunately there don't seem to be any good recordings directly from the PS2 version, but the soundtrack is absolutely fantastic, and probably one area in which I think V has a leg up on VIII. The one or two issues I have with the game are mainly about a couple things in the narrative, and the ending:
1. Martha's character (the main character's mother). When she talks to the main character for the first time, through the life ring, she refers to him as 'omae.' That's a very aggressive way for her to refer to her son, in talking with him for the first time, and nothing about her character, before or after, would make this seems appropriate, considering her stature. I could understand if it were Papas talking with the main character in this way. The rest of her speech is fairly formal, and fitting, though. It's almost like they initially meant for it to be Papas, but changed it to Martha at the last moment, and forgot to change the repetitions of that word. Then they left it alone in the remake. When the main character actually meets her face to face, she drops this usage, though. It's truly bizarre to me.

Also the way she just gets struck down immediately is kind of unceremonious, and I honestly found it laughable; Like I couldn't stop laughing at how poorly it was handled.

2. The ending was a bit more of an annoyance than anything. The Master Dragon takes his sweet ass time flying the party around to the major locations of the game, where you have to walk around and talk to certain characters, and it's like 15 minutes of pure bull crap. Just, Yuuji, take the wheel, dammit.

The main draws to this game, for me, are the monster training, the story, and the music. I like the characters, and side attractions, but it's generally a pretty standard JRPG. So, I wouldn't go out of my way to recommend the game to people, but I would say it's a must for fans of Dragon Quest.


Ryu ga Gotoku, or Yakuza, in the West, is kind of a game I don't see eye to eye with. This could ruffle some feathers, but my main take away from the game is: This is why we can't have nice things! I don't believe that this game did especially well in the West, initially, but it's just sort of galling to me that this franchise has done as well as it has, while Shenmue has basically languished in relative obscurity. The Yakuza series is often compared with the Shenmue series, but in all honest, they share very little in common. So for all intents and purposes, I'm going to leave out comparisons between the franchises, other than to say that Shenmue is an infinitely better game than Ryu ga Gotoku (and that's not even bringing up the disparity between it and Shenmue II).

So, the story, while probably the best part about the game, is pretty much pulp crap. It's a little bit like if Robin Hood were a Japanese mobster--instead of a old timey English one, amirite? :mrgreen: I do like Haruka as a character, and Kazuma isn't the worst of main characters. Date keiji is sort of a standard, grizzled, detective, but not unlikable. Nishikiyama is kind of an overly simplistic character, even though he kind of works into the underlying theme of the game's title, and I kind of have a beef with what goes down with him after the final battle. It's pretty much abject nonsense. Thing is, this game was a one-off. I don't really see a reason for any sequels to exist. Everything was wrapped up by the end of the game, except for a couple minor things, and one thing that really fucking sticks in my craw:
After getting out of the slammer, Kazuma never once asks about Nishiki's sister! You would think that since it was one of the primary reasons he decided to take the fall for Nishiki, he would at least be curious about what the hell happened with her last operation, or if he was even there. Did he even, truly, have a sister? The world may never know.

I threw in the second game after finishing the first, just to kind of get a glimpse of where it was going to go, and after playing through the first chapter, I found that, indeed, they wrote in an almost entirely new cast in order to continue the series. From a story perspective, even though I sort of enjoyed it in Ryu ga Gotoku, I don't see a point in investing in the rest of the series. Although it was kind of interesting that the game took me from not-Kabukichou, to definitely not-Dotonbori.

With that out of the way, I may as well talk about the game play. It's all right. The controls are a bit unstable, and sluggish. Camera angles change often while weaving through Kamurochou, and Kazuma handles it about as gracefully as a drunk person might. You're almost constantly accosted by chinpira, bouryokudan, and the like. This leads into combat that is pretty flaky. It's kind of cool to smash milk crates and giant parking cones over dudes heads, but for the most part, combat is kind of a mess. There are some abilities gained that give a little more subtlety to it, but for the most part, there's a simple 5-button combo that breaks guard and knocks enemies down. The only time this move might be a liability is if the enemy is a type that can sway around behind you. At that point, try to grab.

Otherwise, there's not much exploration, and just some side missions, and little diversion like claw games, and caba-club girls to woo. Also, a whole lot of gambling, with little reward. This game is not deep, nor is it especially challenging from a story or gameplay perspective. It does some things relatively well, but overall I have to say it's a bit of a disappointing experience. Play it for some yucks, and that modern, GTA-style gameplay everyone loves.

I do have to say that the sequel's combat does appear to address a lot of the plodding characteristics of the original's, is a lot more free-form, and doesn't get as bogged down in locking on to an enemy and pounding away. I just don't think I care enough to play any more of the series. At least not any time soon.


Oh my, Dragon Slayer: Eiyuu Densetsu II. It's a little difficult to form my opinion of it. I maybe shouldn't like it, but I do. I liked the first one quite a bit, also. The nice thing about the first game is that it plays pretty briskly, many of the enemies have their own personalities, and often demand different ways of dealing with them. It also had a nice sense of humor, and poked fun at the reliance of the genre on inns being all over the place. Those kind of subtle jabs at the typical, late 80s, JRPG were fun for me. The story, while a fairly standard hero story, also had a nice little twist in the ending that I quite enjoyed--similar in some ways to how I felt about the end of Dungeon Explorer III.

I mention all those things because Eiyuu Densetsu II does a lot to uphold a tradition, while flying in the face of it, as well. The series, at least with these two Dragon Slayer games, plays a lot like a 'hardcore PC' version of Dragon Quest (mostly aesthetically). The first Eiyuu Densetsu was meant to be a "gentle" Dragon Slayer game, that could be enjoyed by all. (Basically just a much less crippling difficulty.) Well the sequel was like, "nuts to that," and put in a labyrinthine underworld that would try the patience of even the hardiest of Japanese PC gamers. Fortunately, after the original PC88 release, there was a key change made to alleviate some of its brutality, but it's still a bit trying. I didn't have a horrible time with it, just because I figured out that I was able to look at the layout of the areas with the Joshua's Mirror--that item is an absolute necessity, and it really shouldn't be something the game allows one to sell. Also, melee attacks aren't really as effective in this game (neither is most magic, for that matter) so most battles end up taking much longer, which can bog down the game a bit. Fortunately, monster encounters are always visible on the map (where there's a light source), which means that a lot of battles can be completely avoided. I found myself spending much less time trying to grind at all in this game, compared to the first, just because of the time spent in battles I didn't manage to avoid, and trudging through the underworld.

The most notable change between Eiyuu Densetsu I and II is the magic system. In the first game, each character has a standard MP pool, and seven spell slots. Most spell types have different levels denoted by a number. For instance, Res, the heal spell, has levels 1 through 5, where Res 1 heals about 50 HP, and Res 5 probably healed about 1500 HP, I don't remember. The efficacy of each level was still modified somewhat by INT, but not so much that a Res 1 would ever beat out a Res 2, if cast by the same character. In Eiyuu Densetsu II, however, each character still has seven spell slots, but the spell levels are done away with, and MP is replaced by recharging "capsules." Instead of the spell levels, a new spell effectiveness stat was added, similar to the relationship between ATK and STR. Each spell type has a set regeneration period, and only regenerates outside of battle. It's a sort of odd/interesting system. My initial thoughts about it, once I started playing the game, and picking up on how magic worked, were that this would be a really nice change for regular encounters, but would make Boss battles really tough. I was mostly right. The elemental attack spells, particularly the two upgraded ones that are unlocked in Chapter 4, take a long time to recharge, which kind of incentivizes avoiding encounters a lot of the time. It doesn't take much to blow through a character's spells in a single battle.

Basically, what you really want in this game is the holy staff, which when used to attack, casts Hoo, or the sleep spell. Sleep in this game makes all hits on the target critical hits, which was pretty much the only consistent way I could do damage to a lot of the enemies in the later chapters. As an aside, Poison is also a little different in these games, and is basically a timed death status where you can't see the timer.

Enemies still have some personality in this game, but I guess the general feeling is that they're much more mean spirited: Blushing from being praised by it's peers after landing a critical hit on the heroes, for instance, or picking up a hero by the head, in its mandibles. I thought they were still kind of interesting, but they are a step down from the enemies in the first game.

The story is still pretty interesting. Maybe more interesting. It kind of turns everything on its ear by the third and fourth chapters, and I enjoyed where it went with the backgrounds of Joshua and Freya. I was also happy that the opening cutscene was finally explained by the end of the game. The characters and exposition are fairly detailed for a game from '92. I thought Cindy was a really fun character, as well. The final boss was a really good antagonist for this type of game. That last boss fight was freaking brutal, though. A lot of the boss fights were really tough, as I had imagined, but I just got really lucky in actually beating the final boss. It made the Chapter 4 boss seem completely reasonable by comparison.

Dragon Slayer: Eiyuu Densetsu II has a slightly mixed legacy, but I'm pretty convinced that someone on the Dragon Quest V staff played the PC88 version of Eiyuu Densetsu II, and was "influenced" by Flora in DS:EDII in creating the Flora in DQ V. There are just too many similarities in their backgrounds, and characters for it to be a coincidence, I feel. Also the timing of it.

I can't really recommend this game, just because it would be nearly impossible to play without knowing any Japanese--good luck finding Captain Naresa at the end of Chapter 4, for instance. Taken together with Eiyuu Densetsu I, though, the two games are quite good--I enjoy them, anyway.
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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by Xeogred Fri May 12, 2017 9:19 pm

1. Duke Nukem 3D: 20th Anniversary World Tour (PC)
2. Serious Sam HD: The First Encounter* (PC)
3. Serious Sam HD: The Second Encounter (PC)
4. D4: Dark Dreams Don't Die (PC)
5. Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight (PC)
6. Deadcore (PC)
7. Yakuza 4 (PS3)
8. Hyper Light Drifter (PC)
9. Doom 2: Valiant (PC)
10. Resident Evil 7 (PS4)
10. Doom 2: Ancient Aliens (PC)
11. Doom 2: Vanguard (PC)
12. Doom 2: Doom 2 The Way id Did (PC)
13. Doom 2: Community Chest Pack 4 (PC)
14. Doom: Doom The Way id Did (PC)
15. Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 (PC)
16. Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 2 (PC)
17. Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (WiiU)
18. Dishonored 2 (PC)
19. Kirby's Dream Land (GB)
20. Kirby's Dream Land 2 (GB)
21. Super Mario Land (GB)
22. Super Mario Land 2 (GB)
23. Mighty Final Fight (NES)
24. Kirby's Dream Land 3 (SNES)
25. Trip World (GB)
26. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Hyperstone Heist (Genesis)
27. Aladdin (Genesis)
28. Streets of Rage (SMS)
29. Bare Knuckle (Genesis)
30. Bare Knuckle 2* (Genesis)
31. Bare Knuckle 3* (Genesis)
32. Marchen Adventure Cotton 100% (SNES)
33. Earthworm Jim* (Sega CD)
34. Ghouls'n Ghosts (Genesis)
35. Contra (NES)
36. Super C (NES)

* replay


Yeahhhhh boi.

Another downhill battle perhaps! It's amusing how the last levels in these were quite easy, maybe it's just me though. Altogether from a few attempts last night and tonight, this one probably only took me maybe ~2 hours to conquer. But that is admittedly going in after polishing my chops after the first game.

It was awesome. I don't see as many people ever talk about Super C. I mean, I think I like the first game more level/boss wise, but Super C is just more awesomeness in a Mega Man sequels kind of way. This one got way more HR Giger with the alien stuff which was awesome. The overhead stages were cool. Some really good music, I liked the 4th stage theme the most here I think. Some of the levels were longer but got pretty creative and were cool. Awesome stuff. I better keep this steam going and hit up Contra 3 and Hard Corps soon!
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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by dunpeal2064 Fri May 12, 2017 9:31 pm

Xeogred wrote: I better keep this steam going and hit up Contra 3 and Hard Corps soon!

You are in for a good time. Contra 3 in particular is a master class of run 'n gun gaming.
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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by Exhuminator Fri May 12, 2017 9:32 pm

Xeogred wrote:I better keep this steam going and hit up Contra 3 and Hard Corps soon!

If you've never played these, you are in for an amazing weekend.
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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by PartridgeSenpai Fri May 12, 2017 9:36 pm


I'm fairly impressed you stuck with Yakuza all the way to the end! I can generally never stick with games that don't gel with me, especially ones that are so dang long. I will say that Yakuza is a series that has gotten MUCH better as the games have gone on. Better gameplay, better diversions, and better characters. The first game is really rough around the edges both mechanically and narrative-wise, so it's cool that they threw it in the Yakuza 0 engine for a full remake recently.
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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by Sarge Fri May 12, 2017 10:23 pm

So, are you burning through these without save states? If so, you've got some serious action-gaming chops taking them down that quickly.
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Re: Games Beaten 2017

by Xeogred Fri May 12, 2017 10:38 pm

Sarge wrote:So, are you burning through these without save states? If so, you've got some serious action-gaming chops taking them down that quickly.

Of course.


I wish I could have recorded my fight with the stage 7 boss in Super C. I was pulling out some Devil May Cry moves or something haha. I think he hit me once and I lost a good weapon, but managed to take him down after that with the normal gun dodging all that crap somehow. It was one of those... I'm not sure how I'm doing this moments... but I wasn't complaining. For some of the vertical bosses, I couldn't tell if jumping up while firing away made you get in a few more hits, but it seemed like it.

And for Contra 3, I see you guys around saying Hard is the real deal, but I'll run Normal for now. That said, more than 3 lives and whatever seems wrong. I'll stick to the Contra/Super C DNA and keep it at 3.

Game overed on stage 3 haha. I freaking hate those spinning windmill bars. Bit of a trap that can send you back down to your death.

Overall seems amazing. I have definitely dabbled into this series over the years, but it seems criminal that I somehow accidentally stepped over them growing up as a kid for the most part. I probably would have ate them up and I'd be getting through them in one life by now. :lol:

I actually think I might have beaten Hard Corps before, I recall playing that one a lot at a friends once.

I know exactly what I'm replaying after Contra. The series that not even anyone here on RB ever talks much about. Also checked out Mega Turrican and it seems like a religious experience for me. Can't wait to get through the whole thing, somehow never played much of that one.
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