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Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:08 pm
by Sload Soap
Enlighten me.

Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:05 pm
by Reprise
Well I don't mean to sound rude, but have you played Shenmue 1 and 2 recently? It seems clear to me that the series will ultimately be about far more than mere revenge. I mean are you forgetting about the meaning of the mirrors? Why Ryo's father was in Hong Kong? All the small plot points that interweave throughout the story (the mysterious scroll, for example)? Then there was literally a floating sword at the end of Shenmue 2. There is constant clues in Shenhua's prophecy and Ryo's dreams that his journey and path will ultimately end up being about far more than revenge - just look at the story Xiuying tells Ryo about her brother who was on a similar path).

It's hardly the worst kept secret in the world that the story will not end (in fact, Yu Suzuki revealed this years, if not decades ago) with Ryo confronting Lan Di and that, whilst it will happen, the story was always meant to continue past that point into something larger. The revenge plot might even be wrapped up in Shenmue 3 (Yu Suzuki has already said he hopes Shenmue 3's ending will satisfy fans and that there will not be a major cliffhanger like there was with Shenmue 2), who knows?

Either way, I do struggle to comprehend the who idea of 'the writer should just rework their entire story to force a fake conclusion to satisfy... well no one', since a rushed and made up ending will actually satisfy no one. It would be a huge disservice to the groundwork laid in the originals and to the fans to do this, just to force a conclusion.

Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:13 pm
by Reprise
Listen to Shenhua's words in the new prophecy trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifTh4kTO5rA

Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:02 pm
by Sload Soap
I was a bit snippy before so I apologise for that and I don't want this to be a boring semantics debate but you've listed plot points across the series, not the story. The story of Shemue is still, 20 years on, Ryo Hazuki travels across Asia to take revenge on the man who killed his father. Aside from glaring at each other from a Kowloon rooftop that story has barely moved on from where it was when Ryo first opened up his notebook. It's now Ryo Hazuki is still travelling across Asia to take revenge on the man who killed his father.

I'm not really seeing why would it be so hard for it to be wrapped up in Shemue III. It's a fairly boilerplate revenge story with a bit of Kung Fu flair added in but it's not an epic. It'd be fairly easy to manufacture, organically as well, a situation in which Ryo and Lan Di have a final confrontation while also explaining all the the stuff with the mirrors and Iwao. Shenmue II is the set up to the conclusion, all the pieces seem to be coming together but we don't quite have the full picture yet. Surely a hypothetical Shemue IV or V would just be padding things out with Lan Di as some sort of Triad Carmen Sandiego, always one step ahead of that pesky Hazuki kid?

So, yes I do agree with RCBH somewhat as I felt a pang of disappointment when I heard Shemue III will not conclude the story. Does Suzuki not now have wherewithal to complete a story that people, including presumably many of the kickstater backers, have waited for almost two decades for? I feel it's more than slightly incongruous to plan for sequels when the development situation has completely changed from that of the first two games. And even then, should wrapping up the Lan Di revenge story therefore preclude the possibility of sequels anyway?

Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:43 am
by Blu
I'm kinda on the in between with you both. Yes, the story is both a revenge plot but also appears to have some metaphysical / magical realism about to take place, with the ending of Shenmue 2. That's exciting to me; it changes from a kung-fu genre to something that blends kung-fu into something greater. If you've played Jade Empire, that's what I think Yu is envisioning with the story. Rather, he could be drawing from the Chinese Classics like Journey to the West and Strange Stories from a Chinese Studio as an influence. It could very much turn to an apocalyptic story, which is what the mirrors I believe can do if misused. I'm excited at those prospects and see what sorts of metaphysical/philosophical themes come up.

That said, I think there's a disconnect with Yu Suzuki in terms of concluding the story, which I think I've stated before. It would be wonderful if we had concluded the story, but it seems the pacing would definitely be off in the third game without making it incredibly long. It's sounding though that 4 and possibly 5 might be easier to develop with all the assets in place, just need the development team to start it up and hopefully it wouldn't be as financially intensive as opposed to starting from scratch. Really I just want to see the story conclude at this point.

Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:30 am
by Reprise
Blu wrote:Yes, the story is both a revenge plot but also appears to have some metaphysical / magical realism about to take place, with the ending of Shenmue 2. That's exciting to me; it changes from a kung-fu genre to something that blends kung-fu into something greater. If you've played Jade Empire, that's what I think Yu is envisioning with the story. Rather, he could be drawing from the Chinese Classics like Journey to the West and Strange Stories from a Chinese Studio as an influence. It could very much turn to an apocalyptic story, which is what the mirrors I believe can do if misused. I'm excited at those prospects and see what sorts of metaphysical/philosophical themes come up.


That's what I mean, particularly the first paragraph. I've always been way more excited about the prospect of finding out the true meaning behind the mirrors and everything that follows it, than simply confronting Lan Di. I also agree that the pacing would seem off. To me, playing through Shenmue 1 and 2, even if I didn't know anything else about the story or what Yu Suzuki has planned, it doesn't feel like we've even scratched the surface of the story or made it even half way through.

I don't think we have to worry about Shenmue 4 or Shenmue 3 ending on a brutal cliffhanger anyways... As you mentioned, Blu, everything is pretty much in place now to build a fourth game.

Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:10 am
by Sload Soap
Personally I hope the next game doesn't lean too heavily into magic or mystical elements. Not only would it make Shenmue less distinct I feel it would create an uneasy disconnect between the almost anally retentive detail the series is known for and the player. But we'll see. I am still cautiously optimistic.

Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:34 pm
by Reprise

Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:11 pm
by pierrot
Sload Soap wrote:Personally I hope the next game doesn't lean too heavily into magic or mystical elements.

I'd say that you might want to expect it, honestly. Shenmue has always had Chinese mysticism as a major theme. It was less pronounced in the first game, especially, but it was always there. It's just unavoidable when the setting is Guilin, though.


Am I the only one who played the backer trial version? I couldn't actually play it until this past weekend, but I already went through it twice, and I keep thinking about going back for more. There's really not a lot to the story part that they included, from what I could tell. The main thing is just talking with a couple people in order to find a guy who knows someone else who can tell you about a guy, but won't tell you about any of that until you beat him in combat. So you train for a bit, and become more hulking strong than ever. It's kind of underwhelming, but everything else? Oh my god! The weird thing is that it simultaneously does, and does not, feel like Shenmue to me. I actually kind of wanted tank controls--. The visuals feel just a little uncomfortable, and Ryo just doesn't run like Ryo. (I'm not sure how I feel about the stamina system, either.) The majority of the gameplay, though? Oh yeah, that's the stuff. Shoot that shit straight into my veins! The trial version has a hard limit of 1 hour, which is really unfortunate, because when I first started playing, I used pretty much all of that time just dropping pachinko balls, playing the other minigames, and most importantly, picking flowers--. No, that last one was legit. I'm calling it now: If the herb picking is a major part of the game in any way, people who are new to Shenmue are going to fu~~~cking hate it. It was a pretty massive source of income in the demo, though.

The combat, and training stuff is all like crack to me. I don't understand how it was getting criticism from people demoing it at E3(?). Basically any resemblance to VF has been totally removed, which I'll probably miss, but it feels extremely fluid. You just dodge by moving out of the way, and moves are executed by facebutton combinations (no directions), maybe in conjunction with the L-trigger, or through a shortcut with the R-trigger. I'm not so sure how it will work with multiple enemies, though, which actually got me wondering a little bit if there will even be any battles in the game that aren't 1-on-1. It's hard for me to imagine a Shenmue game that doesn't have battles against multiple enemies, but I almost feel like it's a possibility this time.

Overall, I'm really looking forward to getting the full version in a little over a month. I got the Japanese PS4 version through my backer rewards (because of course I did), but since I ended up building a PC, instead of getting a PS4, I think I'm probably going to preorder the deluxe edition on the Epic Store.

Re: Shenmue 3 Kickstarter

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:14 am
by Reprise
I'm afraid I gave my code away, since I figured my computer would barely run the game, but I have watched a bunch of streams. It looks great to me. I mean it really looks like they nailed the Shenmue feel and vibe!