alienjesus wrote: It doesn't change the fact you all smell though.
Like a freshly powdered baby's bum!
alienjesus wrote: It doesn't change the fact you all smell though.
Ack wrote:I don't know, chief, the haunting feeling of lust I feel whenever I look at your avatar makes me think it's real.
Ack wrote:
A better analogy would have been fighting games, beat 'em ups, or best of all, run and guns. How many of you have beaten Metal Slug? I mean really beaten it?
alienjesus wrote:
I use continues in other genres. I don't see why using ANY continues is so frowned upon in the shmup genre. If I use a continue in Streets of Rage or Sonic the Hedgehog (which admittedly I don't any more, but my point stands), i'd still mark it as beaten. The ending in Sonic 1 certainly isn't anything more than in most Cave shmups.
In addition, other shmups I've played with limited continues, I'd be happy to use them. I beat Lords of Thunder, Parodius, Nemesis and other using continues. I don't see why Cave games should be different.
dsheinem wrote:BoneSnapDeez wrote:It's completely arbitrary criteria set by the player, not by the game itself. If you choose to play a shmup (or whatever) like that, that's cool. But others are free to set their own criteria.
It isn't an arbitrary criteria at all. A good shmup is designed by a developer so that it is possible to 1cc the game after enough practice/with enough skill. (By contrast, a poor shmup is designed strictly to force quarter-munching.) Feeding credits doesn't promote learning those skills, and any decision about whether a specific shmup can be fairly 1cc'd or not (or about how many credits would be fair) is something you can only learn after spending serious time with it trying to 1cc it. In other words, I can bring myself to count a shmup as "beaten" with more than 1 credit ONLY if I know from spending time with it that a 1cc is basically impossible for me or for someone with slightly more skill than I.
And the analogies to RPGs or Platformers doesn't make any sense, sorry. Those games give you an ending for completing the story: the game has a built-in finish and the extra stuff is extra. In a shmup, the built in finish is usually either a Continue/End Game screen (you didn't beat it) or some kind of Victory/End Game screen (you beat it in some fashion).
noiseredux wrote:Jordan is the best guy at explaining stuff.
prfsnl_gmr wrote:noiseredux wrote:Jordan is the best guy at explaining stuff.
Thanks, Noise!
"Beating" a game is, IMO, the equivalent of "reading" a book or "watching" a film. If you make it to the ending sequence, if you read every word, and if you remain conscious until the credits, you have "beaten" a game, "read" a book, and "watched" a movie. You may not have "appreciated" or "completed" any of them, but you have, IMO, fulfilled the most basic requirement for eventual appreciation or completion.
dsheinem wrote:BoneSnapDeez wrote:It's completely arbitrary criteria set by the player, not by the game itself. If you choose to play a shmup (or whatever) like that, that's cool. But others are free to set their own criteria.
It isn't an arbitrary criteria at all. A good shmup is designed by a developer so that it is possible to 1cc the game after enough practice/with enough skill. (By contrast, a poor shmup is designed strictly to force quarter-munching.) Feeding credits doesn't promote learning those skills, and any decision about whether a specific shmup can be fairly 1cc'd or not (or about how many credits would be fair) is something you can only learn after spending serious time with it trying to 1cc it. In other words, I can bring myself to count a shmup as "beaten" with more than 1 credit ONLY if I know from spending time with it that a 1cc is basically impossible for me or for someone with slightly more skill than I.
alienjesus wrote:The whole 1CC thing is something I just don't like about shmup communities. I'm not playing for high scores or for a perfect run, I'm playing to have fun going through the game and to experience it.
prfsnl_gmr wrote:Fully appreciating a game's design and "beating" it, however, are different things. If a person reads every page of a great novel, then I would say that he or she has "read" it even if he or she missed the importance, subtext, symbolism, etc. (He or she certainly would not have "appreciated" the novel in those circumstances, but I could not deny that the person finished reading it.) The same is true for games. If you play through all of the levels, then - IMO - you have "beaten" it. Whether you have completed it, appreciated its design, etc. is another question.
dsheinem wrote:This works to a point, but "beating" has this double-meaning of "getting to the end" and "taming" or "subduing" (or something similar). I think that, with shmups, credit-feeding is a sign that you may have gotten to the end, but that the game beat you instead of the other way around.
Relevant: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/2099 ... _world.php