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Hobie-wan
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Hobie-wan Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:52 pm

Forlorn Drifter wrote:-The use of keyboard and mouse as the "master control" is flawed and honestly stupid, seeing as it isn't fair to those who have limited hand use. Also, I'm better with a controller on many games then most are with a mouse.


For FPS and RTS where you need accurate aiming and control, yes they are. For fighting and action games, I don't see anyone arguing that M/K are better because they aren't.

I'm not sure what 'limited hand use' has to do with K/M versus controller. Depending on what that entails for a specific person they might not be able to hold up a controller or might not be able to spread their fingers on a keyboard or move a mouse a lot. They may require a custom input setup no matter what.
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jinx
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by jinx Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:52 pm

I don't enjoy the Double Dragon games, Battletoads, Ninja Turtles, or Beat 'em ups in general as much as most people seem to.
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Erik_Twice
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Erik_Twice Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:58 pm

Opa Opa wrote:
General_Norris wrote:- Controllers are completely unfit for FPS
- No FPS designed for controllers can be more than decent

Why do you feel this way?

That's quite the question. I'll try to boil it down a little because it's hard to explain.

The use of a controller instead of a mouse for first person shooters poses similar problems to using a keyboard instead of a steering wheel for a racer, but with the problems additional dimensions add.

The entire concept of the games is pointing a crosshair to a certain object in this screen and pushing a button to fire at it. This often requires following the target at a variable speed as both you and the target move.

A mouse excels as this as it allows the movement of the crosshair to any point as fast as the user wants to without any loss of precision. The range of movement of the crosshair is (mostly) spherical, only being limited by factors such as the size of your mousepad and skill.

But with a controller the further away from the center of the screen, the longer it takes for the cross hair to reach that point and no matter how much the player tries you can't turn faster than your current sensibility allows you to. And the higher such a sensibility is, the lower the precision. So the area a player can reach with the cursor is greatly limited by virtue of the controller.

In practise this means the game can't ask the player to shoot at the corners of the current screen, to defend himself from an ambush from the back against a similarly powered enemy (It takes unaturally long to check your back!) and that shooting at close range becomes unstable. Which greatly limits the interest a game can have.

It also kills any chance for verticality in gameplay since different heights create a lot of "corners" and pulls the game towards corridors and Pac Man chases.

Those corners also make airshots and other fun projectile weapons inviable.

For example, 90% of these plays are impossible with a controller:
EDIT: Watch this one instead, the second and third plays are clear examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGw4nPIf6o

Note that in most of them they either shoot someone in the "screen's corner", they are in the air or spin their view 90º or more. Also note how many differences in height the map have. That's impossible to sustain with a controller.

EDIT: Also note that the game has characters with different speeds! That's a nightmare with a controller!


Have to say, I don't think most of our opinions here are too controversial. That includes you Irixith :lol:
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Hazerd
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Hazerd Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:09 pm

I feel i cant even begin to list my opinions on liking or disliking things in gaming, like i would have to keep updating it like x infinite + 1

But ill post anyways...

- Atari Jaguar Sucks, and should be forgotten
- The 3DO also sucks and should be forgotten
- The Sega Tower of Power is dumb, so is all the console addons for the Genesis/CD/32X, not that the games were bad.
- Zelda 1 and 2 suck.
- Darksiders is better than Ocarina of Time
- Darksiders 2 was ruined by the leveling system, looting system, and the game menu.
- VGA sucks :mrgreen:
- Metroidvania is ok, but i like Classic Castlevania more
- Im liking the Castelvania Lords of Shadow route Konami is taking, and i hope they keep it up.
- Nintendo needs to make a Pokemon MMO, World of Warcraft Style. If they did it right, it would last just as long as WoW has, and could keep releasing expansions for it.
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jinx
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by jinx Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:13 pm

Hazerd wrote:I feel i cant even begin to list my opinions on liking or disliking things in gaming, like i would have to keep updating it like x infinite + 1

But ill post anyways...

- Atari Jaguar Sucks, and should be forgotten
- The 3DO also sucks and should be forgotten
- The Sega Tower of Power is dumb, so is all the console addons for the Genesis/CD/32X, not that the games were bad.
- Zelda 1 and 2 suck.
- Darksiders is better than Ocarina of Time
- Darksiders 2 was ruined by the leveling system, looting system, and the game menu.
- VGA sucks :mrgreen:
- Metroidvania is ok, but i like Classic Castlevania more
- Im liking the Castelvania Lords of Shadow route Konami is taking, and i hope they keep it up.
- Nintendo needs to make a Pokemon MMO, World of Warcraft Style. If they did it right, it would last just as long as WoW has, and could keep releasing expansions for it.


Aside from the Zelda statement, I believe all of those are pretty popular opinions...
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by SamuraiMegas Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:24 pm

Well technically this is a gaming show- I love Kirby Right Back at cha.
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MyNameIsVince
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by MyNameIsVince Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:58 pm

Unpopular gaming opinions? Hmmmm......I guess I'm not that controversial when it comes to gaming opinions. If it were music or politics though, then yeah, I'm pretty much the Antichrist on those opinions, but here......well, I have some. Maybe not totally unpopular but definitely differing from here already so here it goes:

- I love the N64 controller, even if the thumbstick eventually turns to garbage.

- I actually liked the wolf segments early on in Twilight Princess when you're in the alternate realm and have to kill those creatures, loved it with the weird setting and weirder music.

- I love Zelda II more than the 1st Legend of Zelda.

- I can't enjoy the Game Boy Player as much as I want to because there's a slight delay in the controls, and it bugs me. I can't be the only one that feels this way.

- I honestly should have started my Sega collection with a Genesis or a Dreamcast instead of a Saturn. I know I would legitimately enjoy the Genesis because of my SNES love, and I've always had an interest in the Dreamcast. Doesn't help that most Saturn games are ridiculous in price, even moreso if CIB. Not to say I hate the Saturn. I don't, but I dunno.....maybe it's because I've only seen like 6 listings on Craigslist for Saturn stuff in the last 14 months....

- The Super Nintendo Ascii Pad > 2nd generation Saturn controller.

- On that note, 1st generation Saturn controller > 2nd generation Saturn controller.

- I have absolutely zero interest in the Metal Gear Solid franchise. I could go the rest of my existence without ever spending a second playing it.

- The only GTA game I've ever played was GTA 2 on the PC, so it bugs me to hell whenever people do a retrospective on the GTA series and they don't even go back to anything earlier than 3. Like the older ones aren't even real GTA games.

- I still don't get the big deal over Symphony of the Night. I would like to try it though to see what the big hub bub is all about (I'm a purveyor of old school Castlevania).

- I could honestly care less about whether we get Mega Man Legends 3 or not. I'd rather get a new MMX game, done the same way as the SNES MMX games, except for a fully playable Zero this time.

- The back touch screen on the PS Vita is.....uh.....how shall I say this.......WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? I tested a Vita several months ago and it looks nice and everything, handles well, but egads, using that touch screen on the back was balls. I haven't bothered with testing one since.

That's all I got for now. I'm sure I'll have more.
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Forlorn Drifter
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Forlorn Drifter Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:04 pm

flex wood wrote:
Forlorn Drifter wrote:- Dark Souls isn't really that hard, and it is overrated. The amount of backtracking, slowdown, and general "environment" is horribly annoying. The game is basic fantasy setting, despite all these beliefs about how "original" the game is.

I hope you get eaten by a mimic.

Still a great game. Just not made out as to what it actually is. "Hard" isn't the correct term as much as "trying", or something similar. Less about the difficulty, more about one's patience.


Hobie-wan wrote:For FPS and RTS where you need accurate aiming and control, yes they are. For fighting and action games, I don't see anyone arguing that M/K are better because they aren't.

I'm not sure what 'limited hand use' has to do with K/M versus controller. Depending on what that entails for a specific person they might not be able to hold up a controller or might not be able to spread their fingers on a keyboard or move a mouse a lot. They may require a custom input setup no matter what.

Hobie, you know it is an opinion right? And can be wrong? And we're specifically talking about unpopular opinions?

You have a point with the flaw in my hand use argument. I personally have hell using most videogame keyboard motions with my left hand, thus why I get aggravated by the constant dislike and hate every time I bring up using a controller on PC. I acknowledge the great use of the mouse in FPS and RTS, but I just hate using a keyboard to game so much.
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Menegrothx
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by Menegrothx Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:07 pm

Forlorn Drifter wrote:-The use of keyboard and mouse as the "master control" is flawed and honestly stupid, seeing as it isn't fair to those who have limited hand use.

Keyboard and mouse isn't the master control in all genres. Fighting games are best played on fighting sticks, platformers with gamepads, flight and space sims with a joystick on so on. Mouse and keyboard is the best for complex games with a lot of buttons and games where you have to point things at the screen (FPS, RTS, Adventure, Strategy, Isometric [aka superioir :P] RPGs).

Limited hand use is a very poor argument. By same logic you could argue that saying that game pads are the master control isnt fair to people who have ever more limited hand use, while Wii waggle controls and smart phone touch pads don't have that problem. Video games that require skill, whether it's doing high score in arcade games or competing against other people in RTS, FPS and fighting games, or just trying to survive in a really challenging platformer or a SHMUP game have always required fast and agile fingers. There are mentally challenging games that don't require finger and hand dexterity like turn based strategy games, point&click adventure games and puzzle/mystery games where the challenge is purely intellectual and mental, but those are in the minority.
Opa Opa wrote:
General_Norris wrote:- Controllers are completely unfit for FPS
- No FPS designed for controllers can be more than decent

Why do you feel this way?

I know General Norris answered this already but the fact that console FPS games use auto aim and aim helpers should already answer your question. There's two reasons why keyboard and mouse are superioir to game pads in FPS games.
1. Allows for more complex games. Compare System Shock 1 and 2 to Bioshock 1 and 2, or Deus Ex to Deus Ex Invisible War. The multiplatform games were dumbed down, as gamepads have less buttons.
2. Allows a faster pace and more intresting level design. As mouses are a faster, more precise control method, older FPS games were a lot more fast paced and had more maze like levels with more altitude differences.
If Quake was done today
Notice how linear the level design is? That's because when you're desining your game to be a linear corridor shooter, enemies usually pop right in front of the player=a lot of less aiming. That video is obviously a parody, but that's what consoles did to the FPS genre. Because you can't aim as precisely and fast with a gamepad, we don't really get any fast paced shooters with intricate level design anymore.
See the gameplay footage in the end of that video and how fast it is? You certainly don't see that kind of frantic gameplay action in modern console FPS games like Gears of War, Halo and the Modern Warfare-series.

There's nothing wrong with designing shooters exclusively for consoles, like the Golden Eye, Perfect Dark and Halo, it's the multiplatform games where the problem lies.
BurningDoom wrote:-Zelda: Ocarina of Time is NOT the best Zelda game, or even the best N64 game.
-I like RPGs, however I'm not a huge fan of the Final Fantasy games.
-I think Halo 2 is the best entry in the series.
-I like old-school Resident Evil better than the new RE games.
-I prefer a great single-player campaign to a good multiplayer game.
-I like Oblivion better than Skyrim.

These are all common knowledge :?
General_Norris wrote:- Half-Life 2 has horrid pacing.

Care to elaborate? I know that Half Life 2 is kind of overrated, but I don't see a problem in it's pacing. Try Dragon Quest 8 or a similiar game if you want to talk about pacing :lol:
General_Norris wrote:- Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines is mediocre and ignores the main theme of the setting its based on.

It still is mechanically and writing wise better than most RPGs. I can't really argue with you about the theme and setting since I don't play table top RPGs so you might be right, but really there are so much more deserving RPGs to bitch about (most of the best selling ones from the last 4-6 years or so) that get way too much praise, so I don't see why you should attack such a great and (relatively) underrated RPG, even if it's flawed.
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CFFJR
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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

by CFFJR Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:48 pm

On the Castlevania note:

-Metroidvania sucks. These games wreck my enthusiasm for the series.

-The best Castlevania is Rondo of Blood. Symphony isn't even in the same realm.

On Megaman:

-I've never been impressed by Zero and I'm tired of Zero fanboys. Give me Mega Man himself or give me death.

On music:

Generally, if a game was released on both the Genesis and Snes without major changes, I hate the snes version's music. Songs (and sometimes the different sound effects too) that were enjoyable on the former become flat and lifeless on the latter. There are obviously exceptions, but for the most part that's my take.

That last one is guaranteed to tweak somebody. Not that I'm trying to piss anyone off or anything, but that subject seems to get people going.
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